Yes. Add to that list of 'whatever it takes to stay alive', in the US alone, there were almost 2.4 million incarcerated (including 92, 854 juveniles) in 2008, who also often work for peanuts for various concerns, mostly the greediest. I don't think they can be considered employed under these circumstances, but they do work to stay alive. Their numbers should probably be added to those of the officially unemployed.

Altogether, there were 7.3 million on probation, in jail or prison or on parole--3.2%of the (adult) population, or 1 in every 31 adults. What percentage of that 7.3 million are considered out of work? Do economists/statisticians, or politicians ever break down these figures?

Many mentally and physically disabled are doing volunteer work because they are considered otherwise unemployable. Many must volunteer a minimum number of hours at usually unfulfilling jobs in order to qualify for their stay at government sponsored residences. The affect on their self-esteem aside, it's work that both government and private concerns benefit from. Many get below minimum wage under work for the disabled programs. I know an ex-prof from Budapest University Art department who participated in one through a provincial mental health institute, and earned less than two dollars/hr working on private industry gadgets. It was cigarette money, you know. His greatest joy is to paint, which he does brilliantly. Fortunately, volunteers also make that possible for him.

War Vets make up a huge number of both unemployed and permanently disabled. The many who died in service are of course part of this group. Service connected with disabilities are 3.4 mil, out of 5,5 mil with any disability, out of a total of 23.2 mil. US Vets in 2009.

Any other groups we've left out?

Natalia

On 9/9/2010 8:25 AM, Ed Weick wrote:
The article I posted and Ray's response raise the question of what work is. In Canada and the US work is officially viewed as the kinds of activities that Statistics Canada or the Bureau of Labour Statistics keep track of. It is what people who are paid to do something in the formal work world do. But as I pointed out in a previous posting, wasn't what Batu Khan's hoards did in charging across the Mongolian and Russian plains work? And as Ray, points out, isn't the long hours people spend in arts and culture for minimal recompense work even if not counted? Our soldiers don't make Statscan or BLS records, but are they just sitting around in Afghanistan? Or consider what people have to do to find work in the poorer parts of the world. In Costa Rica a few years ago I ran into a number of people who had close relatives working in the US and supporting them at home. Getting to the US took a lot of work raising some money, hiring a coyote, and sneaking across the border to find a minimum wage job. In Jamaica, you had to wonder how those thousands of people living in shanty towns along Kingston harbour survived. My conclusion: one thing they did was reprocess and repackage drugs moving from places like Columbia to the US. Another was to protest and demonstrate when the bosses living in those mansions on the hillsides needed to make a point to the government. And what was being grown in those lovely green fields way up in the hill country? Blind eyes were turned of course . And in the slums of Sao Paulo, the kites would go up. Hey, the shipments come in! Come get it and start moving it around. It was work and it kept people going where there was nothing else. Little capitalist empires arose, as in the movie "City of God" about drug gangs in Rio. My point is that work is whatever people have to do to survive, whether officially measured or not. People who work at low paying jobs in a factory are measured and therefore "official". People who have high paying jobs and get bonuses working for investment banks are measured and therefore "official". The little guy who walks down the street on garbage day looking for bottles to cash in is not measured, so he doesn't count. Nor does the guy who sings and plays his guitar in front of the liquor store for whatever change people throw into his hat.
Ed

    ----- Original Message -----
    *From:* Ray Harrell <mailto:[email protected]>
    *To:* 'RE-DESIGNING WORK, INCOME DISTRIBUTION,EDUCATION'
    <mailto:[email protected]>
    *Sent:* Wednesday, September 08, 2010 4:32 PM
    *Subject:* Re: [Futurework] Trouble, trouble and more trouble

    Two things wrong with that:

    1. Automation and Robotics will make factory work unsustainable as
    an employer.    Estimates on this ten years ago when we had good
    discussions about this was 40% unemployment due to robotics.  The
    only answer that they came up with was a guaranteed minimum
government payment for those who were not employable. Unfortunately the minimum payment is as self defeating as
    unemployment is immoral for a society.

    2. The whole concept of work is based in the assembly line.   That
    is a little more than one hundred years in human history.   Before
    that things were more sustainable because we thought differently
    about work.    Job was originally a temporary position.   Skill
    meant work.  Competency, profession.    One of a kind products
    such as the Arts and culture, are considered play and not
    sustainable as work even though they require long hours, are
    extremely hard to do and have a limited physical life.    If the
    society simply redefined work to mean activity and decided what
    activities it wanted to sustain to make for a happy, cultured and
    intelligent population then a new national consensus would emerge
    or have a chance to emerge.

    Thus far, we are just digging the same old hole that is caving in
    on us.   That's what I take issue with Keith about.  I don't for a
    minute think that serious work is an issue of power.    Serious
    work is an issue of growth because of pleasure in competency and
    discovery.    Power is the war side.     Growth, pleasure and
    discovery is the peace side of existence.   I choose peace.    Our
    introduction (hello)  is Osiyo Dohidju.    Which means "Are you at
    peace?"   if the answer is no, you walk away.     You certainly
    don't hang around for them to count coup on you.

    REH

    *From:* [email protected]
    [mailto:[email protected]] *On Behalf Of *Ed Weick
    *Sent:* Wednesday, September 08, 2010 3:12 PM
    *To:* [email protected]
    *Subject:* [Futurework] Trouble, trouble and more trouble

    From the Washington Post

    Ed

    ------------------------------------------------------------------------


      The bleak truth about unemployment


        


    By Steven Pearlstein
    <http://projects.washingtonpost.com/staff/articles/steven+pearlstein/>

    Tuesday, September 7, 2010; 9:04 PM

    Somewhere between the rantings of the Republican right, which is
    peddling the nonsense that excessive government spending is to
    blame for high unemployment, and the Democratic left, which clings
    to the false hope that another helping of fiscal stimulus is all
    that is needed to get millions of Americans permanently back to
    work, is this stubborn reality:

    The loss of 8 million jobs reflects problems that are largely
    structural, not cyclical, which means they won't be brought back
    by fiddling with a magic dial in Washington that controls how much
    the government spends.

    When I say that the problems are structural, I mean something more
    than what labor economists refer to when they talk about the
    mismatch between the skills of the people who of are out of work
    and the skills needed for the jobs that are being created -
    although that certainly seems to be a factor.

    Since 2007, the manufacturing and construction sectors have each
    lost 2 million jobs, with finance, hospitality and retailing
    accounting for 2 million more. Those categories alone account for
    three-quarters of the nation's job losses, and while a fraction of
    those jobs might return as the economy recovers, it will be a long
    time before automakers or home builders or investment banks or
    retailers see the sales numbers they had at the height of the
    biggest credit bubble the world has ever seen. Some of those
    laid-off workers may have been in this country illegally and have
    now returned home, but most will be looking not only for new jobs
    but also new careers.

    In other cases, the mismatch has more to do with geography than
    skill - the businesses with jobs are in one place, and the people
    with the necessary skills in another. But with many Americans
    living in homes they cannot sell, or can sell only at a price less
    than the value of the mortgages they took out to buy them, the
    willingness and ability of workers to move to a new city have been
    noticeably diminished.

    One telltale sign of this mismatch is the number of job openings
    and the length of time it takes to fill them. As Narayana
    Kocherlakota, president of the Federal Reserve Bank of
    Minneapolis, noted in a recent speech
    <http://www.minneapolisfed.org/news_events/pres/speech_display.cfm?id=4525>,
    those numbers have been going up over the last year, not down, as
    you would expect. Another sign, he said, was the widening gap in
    unemployment rates between the states with the highest rates and
    those with the lowest. Before the recession, it was just over four
    percentage points; now it is more than six.

    The structural problems, however, go well beyond these mismatches.
    The reason there were 8 million additional jobs back in 2007 is
    that demand for goods and services was artificially - and
    unsustainably - inflated by cheap, plentiful credit. Between 2002
    and 2007, household debt was increasing at the torrid pace of more
    than 10 percent annually, while business debt and the debt of
    state and local governments was growing at an average of 9
    percent. Much of that money was used to finance present consumption.

    Now all that has reversed. Household debt is shrinking at a rate
    of 2.4 percent per year as the savings rate has risen from nearly
    zero to more than 5 percent. Meanwhile, business debt declined 2.5
    percent last year and is now flat, as is the case for state and
    local governments.

    All that deleveraging and living within our means is obviously a
    good thing in the long run. But what it means for the economy in
    the short run is that neither the excess consumption nor the jobs
    it supported are coming back. During the past two years, the
    federal government has been actively trying to take up some of the
    slack by going on a borrowing-and-spending binge of its own. But
    continuing on that path is also unsustainable - certainly
    politically, and probably economically as well. And once federal
    deficits begin to decline next year, we'll have yet another drag
    on economic growth and employment.

    At this point, there is only one clear path out of the
    unemployment box we have created for ourselves.

    Right now, the United States is running a trade deficit that is
    likely to reach $450 billion this year. That's down considerably
    from the $750 billion at the height of the economic bubble, but
    still more than a wealthy advanced economy should have. Bringing
    it down - either by producing more of what we consume (fewer
    imports) or more of what other countries consume (more exports) -
    represents the path toward sustainable, long-term job creation.

    The problem with that strategy is that for the past two decades we
    have allowed our industrial and technological base to deteriorate
    as talent and capital were grossly misallocated toward other
    sectors of the economy, even as other countries were able to
    attract the investment, the technology and the know-how to serve
    the U.S. and global markets.

    For a time, none of this seemed to matter because we were
    consuming so much that we were able to support job creation at
    home as well as overseas. But now that the debt-fueled consumption
    binge is over, we find that we don't have the companies, the
    workers or the competitive products to replace the stuff we now
    import or expand our share of export markets. Even when we do, our
    companies are disadvantaged by an overvalued currency or unfair
    trading practices.

    As Daniel Gros, director of the Centre for European Policy
    Studies, wrote this month for Project Syndicate
    <http://www.project-syndicate.org/>, a wonderful new economics Web
    site: "It is relatively easy to manage a structural shift out of
    manufacturing during a real-estate boom, but it is much more
    difficult to re-establish a competitive manufacturing sector once
    it has been lost."

    A structural shift toward exports and import substitution," Gros
    warns, "will be difficult and time consuming." He might have added
    that it will also be expensive, requiring sustained investment by
    government and industry, and internationally disruptive, requiring
    a much tougher line with trading partners that consistently tilt
    the playing field in their favor.

    In this election season, the politicians who are really serious
    about creating jobs and bringing down unemployment
    
<http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2010/09/03/AR2010090301979.html>
    won't be the ones screaming about tax cuts, or stimulus or some
    imagined government takeover of the economy. They'll be the ones
    talking about how to make the American economy competitive again.


    ------------------------------------------------------------------------
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