You didn't answer my question but you sort of answered it, maybe. Are you conceding, then, that accounting can improve decision-making at the enterprise level but it is still "idealistic" to insist on better accounting at the level of the macro-economy? If so, would you care to explain why?
I have been fairly deeply involved in debates around the adequacy or otherwise of national income accounting and I have to confess to having an unorthodox view on the official counter-orthodoxy. While I appreciate the critique of GDP from Daly or CASSE, I think they over complicate things at the same time as they hang on to some rather conventional ideas about valuation. So don't be surprised if I actually agree with some of your reservations about idealism. But I also think I've found a rigorous way around that idealism. On Fri, Dec 3, 2010 at 4:23 AM, Ed Weick <[email protected]> wrote: > Oh. OK, but I thought you meant in a full cost accounting sense, like > H.Daly. > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Sandwichman" <[email protected]> > To: "RE-DESIGNING WORK, INCOME DISTRIBUTION,EDUCATION" > <[email protected]> > Sent: Thursday, December 02, 2010 4:29 PM > Subject: Re: [Futurework] Enough is Enough > In the sense that a systematic monitoring of expenses and revenues, > assets and liabilities -- and faithful attention to the results -- can > improve the quality of decision making in an enterprise. > > On Thu, Dec 2, 2010 at 1:09 PM, Ed Weick <[email protected]> wrote: >> In what sense? >> >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Sandwichman" <[email protected]> >> To: "RE-DESIGNING WORK, INCOME DISTRIBUTION,EDUCATION" >> <[email protected]> >> Sent: Thursday, December 02, 2010 11:53 AM >> Subject: Re: [Futurework] Enough is Enough >> The question I would have for the cynic is "do you believe in >> bookkeeping?" >> >> On Thu, Dec 2, 2010 at 8:21 AM, Ed Weick <[email protected]> wrote: >>> I'm afraid I'm feeling rather cynical this morning, cynical enough to >>> wonder >>> how many times I've read stuff like the Enough is Enough document. In >>> fact, >>> as an aspiring idealist long ago, I'd probably written stuff like that >>> myself. >>> >>> Can we really expect the kinds of things that the academic and other >>> enoughers are promoting to happen? Not likely. I can't see the chaotic >>> world we live ever being that way. >>> >>> There, I've done it. I'm a cynic. >>> >>> Ed >>> >>> >>> >>> ----- Original Message ----- >>> From: D and N >>> To: RE-DESIGNING WORK, INCOME DISTRIBUTION,EDUCATION >>> Sent: Wednesday, December 01, 2010 5:16 PM >>> Subject: Re: [Futurework] Enough is Enough >>> Hi Sandwichman, >>> >>> This is a good read. Did anyone else fail to get it? If not for Arthur's >>> comment, it wouldn't have arrived. Could be our system. >>> >>> I've been reading from back to front, because of its length, to see if >>> any >>> great ideas came up on how to get the powerful to stop influencing >>> politicians. Going back--by around page 60, I'm not seeing much mention >>> of >>> how to deal with the ones who are currently in control. Elected officials >>> are being vaguely discussed, but not the corporate strong arms. Thus far. >>> ...Working backwards. >>> >>> Many ideas about the overall fabric are sound, and it's great to find >>> such >>> a >>> comprehensive outline. Yet, the wealthiest of the world, because of Wall >>> Street lax rules and currency markets having made many of them secret >>> Trillionaires, are not going to be financially pressured to release their >>> hold on politicians for many years to come, such that the controlling >>> legislation and legislators will stay firmly in place as the economy >>> collapses. That this is more than likely a planned collapse by the >>> puppeteers makes it even more challenging, for even more profit will be >>> made >>> in a restructuring they once again devise. They own the government, they >>> own >>> a lot of assets and land again, and they're just not hurting for cash or >>> power. >>> >>> So, I'll keep reading. And I'll think about an apt and contagious name >>> for >>> the movement, too. >>> >>> Natalia >>> >>> On 12/1/2010 9:32 AM, Arthur Cordell wrote: >>> >>> What has been the reception to this very comprehensive and thoughtful >>> report and is there any follow up? >>> >>> From: [email protected] >>> [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Sandwichman >>> Sent: Wednesday, November 17, 2010 1:48 PM >>> To: RE-DESIGNING WORK, INCOME DISTRIBUTION, EDUCATION >>> Subject: [Futurework] Enough is Enough >>> >>> Enough is Enough: Ideas for a Sustainable >>> Economy in a World of Finite Resources >>> >>> http://steadystate.org/wp-content/uploads/EnoughIsEnough_FullReport.pdf >>> >>> Contents >>> Forewords >>> >>> >>> .................................................................................................................. >>> 6 >>> >>> >>> Summary.................................................................................................................... >>> 9 >>> Part One: Questions of Enough >>> 1. Introduction >>> >>> >>> ......................................................................................................... >>> 20 >>> 2. How Much is Enough? >>> >>> >>> ........................................................................................ >>> 23 >>> 3. What Sort of Economy Provides Enough? >>> .......................................................... 33 >>> Part Two: Strategies of Enough >>> 4. Enough Throughput: Limiting Resource Use and Waste >>> Production................... 42 >>> 5. Enough People: Stabilising >>> >>> Population................................................................ >>> 50 >>> 6. Enough Inequality: Distributing Income and >>> Wealth............................................ 57 >>> 7. Enough Debt: Reforming the Monetary >>> System.................................................. 64 >>> 8. Enough Poor Indicators: Changing the Way We Measure >>> Progress................... 73 >>> 9. Enough Job Losses: Securing >>> Employment........................................................ 80 >>> 10. Enough Excess Profits: Rethinking Business and >>> Production........................... 87 >>> 11. Enough Unilateralism: Addressing Global >>> Relationships................................... 95 >>> 12. Enough Materialism: Changing Consumer >>> Behaviour..................................... 101 >>> 13. Enough Silence: Engaging Politicians and the Media >>> ..................................... 106 >>> Part Three: Advancing the Economy of Enough >>> 14. A Blueprint for an Economy Built to Last >>> ......................................................... 112 >>> 15. Boldness in Building the Steady State >>> Economy............................................. 117 >>> Notes and >>> >>> >>> References............................................................................................ >>> 121 >>> >>> A foreword by Lorna Arblaster and David Adshead >>> >>> Unlimited economic growth is not possible on a finite planet. Despite >>> this, >>> there is >>> little discussion of an alternative economic system that can meet our >>> needs >>> without >>> growth. The Steady State Economy Conference aimed to promote such >>> discussion. >>> In particular it aimed to identify practical policy proposals to bring >>> about >>> change >>> towards a steady state economy in the UK. >>> >>> The conference took place on 19th June 2010. Three years earlier to the >>> day, >>> we >>> collaborated with Claire Bastin to host the first Café Economique in a >>> suburb of >>> Leeds. Inspired by the concept of “economic justice for all” (and taking >>> that phrase >>> as the name of our organisation), we set out to develop a forum where >>> members of >>> the public could discuss socio-economic problems and consider innovative >>> solutions. >>> At the first Café Economique, Claire led a discussion on the topic of >>> “Economics in a >>> Full World”. The suggested background reading for the discussion was a >>> paper >>> of >>> the same title, written by economist Herman Daly and published in >>> Scientific >>> American. >>> >>> From this simple beginning, the number of people attending the monthly >>> Café >>> Economique events has grown steadily, requiring us to move to larger >>> venues. >>> How >>> have we achieved this continuing and increasing interest? We meet >>> locally, >>> we >>> invite a speaker to inform the discussion, we use a format that >>> encourages >>> attendee >>> participation, and we address a wide range of socio-economic issues. >>> In November 2009, Dan O’Neill, the European Director of the Center for >>> the >>> Advancement of the Steady State Economy (CASSE), spoke at the Café >>> Economique. We took great interest in Dan’s ideas and the discussion that >>> they >>> generated, and together we recognised an opportunity to develop the >>> concepts >>> further. The conference and this report are the result of this >>> collaboration >>> between >>> Economic Justice for All and CASSE. >>> >>> The report, with its extensive set of references, is an excellent primer >>> for >>> anyone >>> interested in the economics of sustainability. It also provides a >>> valuable >>> information >>> resource for “economic discussion and action” groups, and we hope that it >>> will lead >>> to the creation of more such groups, in the UK and around the world. >>> Increasing awareness of the pressures on our fragile planet obliges us to >>> rethink >>> urgently how we organise our economic and social systems — a complex and >>> challenging task. This report provides an overview of areas where change >>> is >>> needed, specific proposals for change, and questions for further >>> discussion. >>> >>> A small local group with few resources, Economic Justice for All dared, >>> with >>> CASSE, >>> to organise the Steady State Economy Conference. We hope that you will >>> dare >>> to >>> take forward the ideas in this report, whoever and wherever you are. >>> >>> >>> -- >>> Sandwichman >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Futurework mailing list >>> [email protected] >>> https://lists.uwaterloo.ca/mailman/listinfo/futurework >>> >>> ________________________________ >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Futurework mailing list >>> [email protected] >>> https://lists.uwaterloo.ca/mailman/listinfo/futurework >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Futurework mailing list >>> [email protected] >>> https://lists.uwaterloo.ca/mailman/listinfo/futurework >>> >>> >> >> >> >> -- >> Sandwichman >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Futurework mailing list >> [email protected] >> https://lists.uwaterloo.ca/mailman/listinfo/futurework >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Futurework mailing list >> [email protected] >> https://lists.uwaterloo.ca/mailman/listinfo/futurework >> >> > > > > -- > Sandwichman > > _______________________________________________ > Futurework mailing list > [email protected] > https://lists.uwaterloo.ca/mailman/listinfo/futurework > > _______________________________________________ > Futurework mailing list > [email protected] > https://lists.uwaterloo.ca/mailman/listinfo/futurework > > -- Sandwichman _______________________________________________ Futurework mailing list [email protected] https://lists.uwaterloo.ca/mailman/listinfo/futurework
