I do recognize that accounting is vital to business decision making. Firms need to have a continuous handle on their costs and revenues. In the case of national accounting, it's been some time since I've done any work that involved it, so I'm quite rusty on it. However, I recall debate on what should be included and what can be ommitted and the political advantage of including some things but not others, thereby giving a partial picture.
Ed ----- Original Message ----- From: "Sandwichman" <[email protected]> To: "RE-DESIGNING WORK, INCOME DISTRIBUTION,EDUCATION" <[email protected]> Sent: Friday, December 03, 2010 12:55 PM Subject: Re: [Futurework] Enough is Enough You didn't answer my question but you sort of answered it, maybe. Are you conceding, then, that accounting can improve decision-making at the enterprise level but it is still "idealistic" to insist on better accounting at the level of the macro-economy? If so, would you care to explain why? I have been fairly deeply involved in debates around the adequacy or otherwise of national income accounting and I have to confess to having an unorthodox view on the official counter-orthodoxy. While I appreciate the critique of GDP from Daly or CASSE, I think they over complicate things at the same time as they hang on to some rather conventional ideas about valuation. So don't be surprised if I actually agree with some of your reservations about idealism. But I also think I've found a rigorous way around that idealism. On Fri, Dec 3, 2010 at 4:23 AM, Ed Weick <[email protected]> wrote: > Oh. OK, but I thought you meant in a full cost accounting sense, like > H.Daly. > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Sandwichman" <[email protected]> > To: "RE-DESIGNING WORK, INCOME DISTRIBUTION,EDUCATION" > <[email protected]> > Sent: Thursday, December 02, 2010 4:29 PM > Subject: Re: [Futurework] Enough is Enough > In the sense that a systematic monitoring of expenses and revenues, > assets and liabilities -- and faithful attention to the results -- can > improve the quality of decision making in an enterprise. > > On Thu, Dec 2, 2010 at 1:09 PM, Ed Weick <[email protected]> wrote: >> In what sense? >> >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Sandwichman" <[email protected]> >> To: "RE-DESIGNING WORK, INCOME DISTRIBUTION,EDUCATION" >> <[email protected]> >> Sent: Thursday, December 02, 2010 11:53 AM >> Subject: Re: [Futurework] Enough is Enough >> The question I would have for the cynic is "do you believe in >> bookkeeping?" >> >> On Thu, Dec 2, 2010 at 8:21 AM, Ed Weick <[email protected]> wrote: >>> I'm afraid I'm feeling rather cynical this morning, cynical enough to >>> wonder >>> how many times I've read stuff like the Enough is Enough document. In >>> fact, >>> as an aspiring idealist long ago, I'd probably written stuff like that >>> myself. >>> >>> Can we really expect the kinds of things that the academic and other >>> enoughers are promoting to happen? Not likely. I can't see the chaotic >>> world we live ever being that way. >>> >>> There, I've done it. I'm a cynic. >>> >>> Ed >>> >>> >>> >>> ----- Original Message ----- >>> From: D and N >>> To: RE-DESIGNING WORK, INCOME DISTRIBUTION,EDUCATION >>> Sent: Wednesday, December 01, 2010 5:16 PM >>> Subject: Re: [Futurework] Enough is Enough >>> Hi Sandwichman, >>> >>> This is a good read. Did anyone else fail to get it? If not for Arthur's >>> comment, it wouldn't have arrived. Could be our system. >>> >>> I've been reading from back to front, because of its length, to see if >>> any >>> great ideas came up on how to get the powerful to stop influencing >>> politicians. Going back--by around page 60, I'm not seeing much mention >>> of >>> how to deal with the ones who are currently in control. Elected officials >>> are being vaguely discussed, but not the corporate strong arms. Thus far. >>> ...Working backwards. >>> >>> Many ideas about the overall fabric are sound, and it's great to find >>> such >>> a >>> comprehensive outline. Yet, the wealthiest of the world, because of Wall >>> Street lax rules and currency markets having made many of them secret >>> Trillionaires, are not going to be financially pressured to release their >>> hold on politicians for many years to come, such that the controlling >>> legislation and legislators will stay firmly in place as the economy >>> collapses. That this is more than likely a planned collapse by the >>> puppeteers makes it even more challenging, for even more profit will be >>> made >>> in a restructuring they once again devise. They own the government, they >>> own >>> a lot of assets and land again, and they're just not hurting for cash or >>> power. >>> >>> So, I'll keep reading. And I'll think about an apt and contagious name >>> for >>> the movement, too. >>> >>> Natalia >>> >>> On 12/1/2010 9:32 AM, Arthur Cordell wrote: >>> >>> What has been the reception to this very comprehensive and thoughtful >>> report and is there any follow up? >>> >>> From: [email protected] >>> [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Sandwichman >>> Sent: Wednesday, November 17, 2010 1:48 PM >>> To: RE-DESIGNING WORK, INCOME DISTRIBUTION, EDUCATION >>> Subject: [Futurework] Enough is Enough >>> >>> Enough is Enough: Ideas for a Sustainable >>> Economy in a World of Finite Resources >>> >>> http://steadystate.org/wp-content/uploads/EnoughIsEnough_FullReport.pdf >>> >>> Contents >>> Forewords >>> >>> >>> .................................................................................................................. >>> 6 >>> >>> >>> Summary.................................................................................................................... >>> 9 >>> Part One: Questions of Enough >>> 1. Introduction >>> >>> >>> ......................................................................................................... >>> 20 >>> 2. How Much is Enough? >>> >>> >>> ........................................................................................ >>> 23 >>> 3. What Sort of Economy Provides Enough? >>> .......................................................... 33 >>> Part Two: Strategies of Enough >>> 4. Enough Throughput: Limiting Resource Use and Waste >>> Production................... 42 >>> 5. Enough People: Stabilising >>> >>> Population................................................................ >>> 50 >>> 6. Enough Inequality: Distributing Income and >>> Wealth............................................ 57 >>> 7. Enough Debt: Reforming the Monetary >>> System.................................................. 64 >>> 8. Enough Poor Indicators: Changing the Way We Measure >>> Progress................... 73 >>> 9. Enough Job Losses: Securing >>> Employment........................................................ 80 >>> 10. Enough Excess Profits: Rethinking Business and >>> Production........................... 87 >>> 11. Enough Unilateralism: Addressing Global >>> Relationships................................... 95 >>> 12. Enough Materialism: Changing Consumer >>> Behaviour..................................... 101 >>> 13. Enough Silence: Engaging Politicians and the Media >>> ..................................... 106 >>> Part Three: Advancing the Economy of Enough >>> 14. A Blueprint for an Economy Built to Last >>> ......................................................... 112 >>> 15. Boldness in Building the Steady State >>> Economy............................................. 117 >>> Notes and >>> >>> >>> References............................................................................................ >>> 121 >>> >>> A foreword by Lorna Arblaster and David Adshead >>> >>> Unlimited economic growth is not possible on a finite planet. Despite >>> this, >>> there is >>> little discussion of an alternative economic system that can meet our >>> needs >>> without >>> growth. The Steady State Economy Conference aimed to promote such >>> discussion. >>> In particular it aimed to identify practical policy proposals to bring >>> about >>> change >>> towards a steady state economy in the UK. >>> >>> The conference took place on 19th June 2010. Three years earlier to the >>> day, >>> we >>> collaborated with Claire Bastin to host the first Café Economique in a >>> suburb of >>> Leeds. Inspired by the concept of “economic justice for all” (and taking >>> that phrase >>> as the name of our organisation), we set out to develop a forum where >>> members of >>> the public could discuss socio-economic problems and consider innovative >>> solutions. >>> At the first Café Economique, Claire led a discussion on the topic of >>> “Economics in a >>> Full World”. The suggested background reading for the discussion was a >>> paper >>> of >>> the same title, written by economist Herman Daly and published in >>> Scientific >>> American. >>> >>> From this simple beginning, the number of people attending the monthly >>> Café >>> Economique events has grown steadily, requiring us to move to larger >>> venues. >>> How >>> have we achieved this continuing and increasing interest? We meet >>> locally, >>> we >>> invite a speaker to inform the discussion, we use a format that >>> encourages >>> attendee >>> participation, and we address a wide range of socio-economic issues. >>> In November 2009, Dan O’Neill, the European Director of the Center for >>> the >>> Advancement of the Steady State Economy (CASSE), spoke at the Café >>> Economique. We took great interest in Dan’s ideas and the discussion that >>> they >>> generated, and together we recognised an opportunity to develop the >>> concepts >>> further. The conference and this report are the result of this >>> collaboration >>> between >>> Economic Justice for All and CASSE. >>> >>> The report, with its extensive set of references, is an excellent primer >>> for >>> anyone >>> interested in the economics of sustainability. It also provides a >>> valuable >>> information >>> resource for “economic discussion and action” groups, and we hope that it >>> will lead >>> to the creation of more such groups, in the UK and around the world. >>> Increasing awareness of the pressures on our fragile planet obliges us to >>> rethink >>> urgently how we organise our economic and social systems — a complex and >>> challenging task. This report provides an overview of areas where change >>> is >>> needed, specific proposals for change, and questions for further >>> discussion. >>> >>> A small local group with few resources, Economic Justice for All dared, >>> with >>> CASSE, >>> to organise the Steady State Economy Conference. We hope that you will >>> dare >>> to >>> take forward the ideas in this report, whoever and wherever you are. >>> >>> >>> -- >>> Sandwichman >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Futurework mailing list >>> [email protected] >>> https://lists.uwaterloo.ca/mailman/listinfo/futurework >>> >>> ________________________________ >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Futurework mailing list >>> [email protected] >>> https://lists.uwaterloo.ca/mailman/listinfo/futurework >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Futurework mailing list >>> [email protected] >>> https://lists.uwaterloo.ca/mailman/listinfo/futurework >>> >>> >> >> >> >> -- >> Sandwichman >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Futurework mailing list >> [email protected] >> https://lists.uwaterloo.ca/mailman/listinfo/futurework >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Futurework mailing list >> [email protected] >> https://lists.uwaterloo.ca/mailman/listinfo/futurework >> >> > > > > -- > Sandwichman > > _______________________________________________ > Futurework mailing list > [email protected] > https://lists.uwaterloo.ca/mailman/listinfo/futurework > > _______________________________________________ > Futurework mailing list > [email protected] > https://lists.uwaterloo.ca/mailman/listinfo/futurework > > -- Sandwichman _______________________________________________ Futurework mailing list [email protected] https://lists.uwaterloo.ca/mailman/listinfo/futurework
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