Thanks Barry, very interesting. It helps me understand context for the place where you sit in the circle around the problem that is growing worse almost by the minute. Any other thoughts?
REH From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Robert Stennett Sent: Sunday, August 07, 2011 6:17 PM To: RE-DESIGNING WORK, INCOME DISTRIBUTION, EDUCATION Subject: Re: [Futurework] What happens when citizens lose faith in government? See interspersed comments - Barry On Aug 7, 2011, at 1:06 PM, Ray Harrell wrote: Questions? 1. Do the list members believe that the problem of the U.S. government is debt or stimulus? Neither - the fundamental problem is politicians wholly-owned by corporations & big business interests. Even if the politicians are initially concerned about the nation and/or the population, they are quickly bought off by monied interests. 2. Is the lists's assumptions about the basic systems of economics more like fractals, fluids or organic systems? The system is organic. It can't be any other way. Would not the math for fractals and fluids be different in context? Probably. Would not the problem of math with Allopathic Medicine and the system of science in relation to pharmaceuticals make an "Organic system analogy", for the marketplace, problematic with things like credit ratings for large systems, if you believe in the "psychological" model for the marketplace? Yes, this is problematic. But it seems to me to be a more appropriate way of looking at things. The 'psychological model' is the only appropriate model I know of for dealing with human-based systems. (Is there an inherent conflict of interest in a set of referee organizations, S & P, whose sympathies lie with the private and not the public sector and whose politics continually create a situation that is not scientific but political as in their current comments that go nowhere in today's NYTimes? http://www.nytimes.com/2011/08/07/business/a-rush-to-assess-standard-and-poo rs-downgrade-of-united-states-credit-rating.html?_r=1 <http://www.nytimes.com/2011/08/07/business/a-rush-to-assess-standard-and-po ors-downgrade-of-united-states-credit-rating.html?_r=1&ref=global> &ref=global In other words, can we call it law if the Judge is psychologically conflicted? Yes, there is conflict of interest. I don't know of a way to avoid the conflicts of interest completely. Perhaps your Native systems were better at this, or at least at compensating for it, in that multiple speakers represented different perspectives before decisions were reached. (At least, that's an incomplete representation of my incomplete understanding...) 3. Again: is the underlying assumptions of the list that the marketplace is an example of the laws of Design, the laws of thermodynamics, or the organic laws of human psychology (or maybe agri-culture)? I have to go with the psychological perspective. Most economics, I've been taught, prefer a Design approach, I think. Clearly, this is not entirely appropriate for real-world situations involving people. I'm asking about the assumptions behind what you post, the context from which you choose to build not only your intellectual arguments but from which you choose to perceive what you believe to be the "stuff" of "the" world. I'm asking if it might possibly be the "stuff" of "your" world instead,(of "the" world) and that an examination of the place where each of us sits is a part of the examination of the problem itself? Interesting approach to understanding. I hope it is useful to the list. Just some thoughts as I read the posts this morning. REH Barry
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