And well it should. These are economists who claim that economics has nothing to say about national income accounting yet somehow they still expect to get paid for their expertise about having nothing to add to the work of accountants!
Didn't Wittgenstein say, "If you have nothing to say, STFU!" On Fri, Oct 28, 2011 at 9:06 AM, D and N <[email protected]> wrote: > But you have shown someone they are not as bright or knowing as they > thought and that makes some people very afraid. > > Darryl > > > > > On 10/27/2011 11:03 PM, Sandwichman wrote: > > As long as we're kvetching about not getting any respect: On another list I > presented a hypothesis about debt from a social accounting perspective. It > was a pretty interesting hypothesis if I do say so myself. So, of course > somebody launches a hostile tirade at me because, he says, I'm an idiot who > doesn't know the first thing about double entry bookkeeping. > > Well, I do happen to know something about d.e.b. I took a course in it at > university and have read about the history of d.e.b. (which is fascinating > by the way). But what I was talking about wasn't d.e.b. it was social > accounting and social accounting has to consider additional information plus > it has to re-interpret some of information in d.e.b. when it is used for > social accounting purposes. > > So I'm left wondering where this hostility comes from just because I'm > talking about something that doesn't fit in the boxes that he thinks are the > only boxes there are? > > On Thu, Oct 27, 2011 at 10:52 PM, Ray Harrell <[email protected]> wrote: > >> So can I and I’ve never been paid for anything that I did that was truly >> important. Financed it myself and it will be in the history books. >> That’s why I joined the Organization of American Historians. :>)) did you >> notice that the Indians in Washington got a dam opened up for the Salmon >> while the Indians in the Amazon will lose their culture and identity in >> another dam built in the middle of the most pristine Indian culture on the >> planet. Pig sooyey! Anyone up for a cow chip tossing contest? No >> wonder they can’t smell. >> >> >> >> REH >> >> >> >> *From:* [email protected] [mailto: >> [email protected]] *On Behalf Of *Sandwichman >> *Sent:* Thursday, October 27, 2011 10:43 PM >> *To:* RE-DESIGNING WORK, INCOME DISTRIBUTION, EDUCATION >> >> *Subject:* Re: [Futurework] [Ottawadissenters] More Jobs Predicted for >> Machines, Not People >> >> >> >> I don't regret not being able to do grunt work. I do grunt work. I also do >> scholarship that is far out ahead of 99% of what comes out of the academy >> but I don't get paid. I have to pay my rent and buy food. I can tell you >> exactly what is wrong here and how to fix it. That an $1.95 will buy me a >> cup of coffee. >> >> On Thu, Oct 27, 2011 at 7:22 PM, Ray Harrell <[email protected]> wrote: >> >> Classical Greece changed the world in a little over 100 years because they >> had slaves who did the grunt work and they could do real work on the human >> mind. We have slave machines and lament not being able to do grunt work. >> What is wrong here? What is it about the modern age that so demeans the >> body and human potential? Americans, and Canadians, can barely smell much >> less taste. Two out of seven sensual worlds are basically lost to the >> whole continent. The internal Kinesthetic world is so strange to them that >> they think they are depressed when they have a stomachache. They love to >> “watch” dance, commit serious aural forms to the taste of the upper 1% and >> barely ever touch each other. But they do math. “Objective” science >> means visual. Aural forms or “orders” in time are frightening, especially >> when some dictator uses them on unsophisticated folks and they lose their >> visual objectivity. Oh yes and to these folks everything IS sex. The >> whole sensorium is just one big wish for an orgy unrequited. Is it any >> wonder that they just sit and grunt for pay? >> >> >> >> REH >> >> >> >> *From:* [email protected] [mailto: >> [email protected]] *On Behalf Of *Arthur Cordell >> *Sent:* Thursday, October 27, 2011 8:34 PM >> >> >> *To:* [email protected]; 'RE-DESIGNING WORK, INCOME >> DISTRIBUTION, EDUCATION' >> >> *Subject:* Re: [Futurework] [Ottawadissenters] More Jobs Predicted for >> Machines, Not People >> >> >> >> Well said and worth repeating. >> >> >> >> *From:* [email protected] [mailto: >> [email protected]] *On Behalf Of *Ed Weick >> *Sent:* Thursday, October 27, 2011 3:38 PM >> *To:* [email protected]; 'RE-DESIGNING WORK, INCOME >> DISTRIBUTION, EDUCATION' >> *Subject:* Re: [Ottawadissenters] More Jobs Predicted for Machines, Not >> People >> >> >> >> >> >> Something I posted a couple of weeks ago may warrant repeating: >> >> >> >> Ah yes, the milkman or milklady. When I was a kid in Calgary or >> wherever I used to hear the milkman's (or woman's) horse come clop-clopping >> down the street early in the morning, then the clank of empty milk bottles >> being replaced by full ones. Then, as a young adult, I remember not having >> enough money to pay the parking attendant. He was a good guy so he let me >> go. Then as a civil servant, I remember giving one of the stenos in the >> typing pool hell because when I dictated Super Constellation (the name of an >> airliner in case you don't remember), she typed Stupor Constipation! And >> one of the messengers, the guys who ran the mail around, lost one of the >> memos that was supposed to go to the Deputy Minister and bad things >> happened. All those people doing all those jobs! Wonder where they are >> now? Maybe some of them have joined the sit-in on Wall Street in the US or >> on Bay Street here in Canada. Maybe many of them -- the younger ones -- are >> part of the huge crowds that have gathered in our colleges and >> universities because they have nothing better to do. >> >> >> >> The milk is no longer delivered, the guys in the parking lots have become >> machines, the stenos and messengers have become computers, and our colleges >> and universities have become places to store young people who have little to >> do anymore. >> >> >> >> I think I'll aim my horse westward and ride away. >> >> >> >> Ed >> >> >> >> >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> >> *From:* Arthur Cordell <[email protected]> >> >> *To:* [email protected] ; 'RE-DESIGNING WORK, INCOME >> DISTRIBUTION, EDUCATION' <[email protected]> >> >> *Sent:* Thursday, October 27, 2011 9:07 AM >> >> *Subject:* [Ottawadissenters] More Jobs Predicted for Machines, Not >> People >> >> >> >> >> >> October 23, 2011 NY Times >> More Jobs Predicted for Machines, Not People By STEVE >> LOHR<http://topics.nytimes.com/top/reference/timestopics/people/l/steve_lohr/index.html?inline=nyt-per> >> >> *A faltering economy explains much of the job shortage in America, but >> advancing technology has sharply magnified the effect, more so than is >> generally understood, according to two researchers at the Massachusetts >> Institute of Technology*. >> >> The automation of more and more work once done by humans is the central >> theme of “Race Against the >> Machine,”<http://www.amazon.com/Race-Against-Machine-Accelerating-ebook/dp/B005WTR4ZI/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1319384892&sr=8-2>an >> e-book to be published on Monday. >> >> “Many workers, in short, are losing the race against the machine,” the >> authors write. >> >> Erik Brynjolfsson, an economist and director of the M.I.T. Center for >> Digital Business, and Andrew P. McAfee, associate director and principal >> research scientist at the center, are two of the nation’s leading experts on >> technology and productivity. The tone of alarm in their book is a departure >> for the pair, whose previous research has focused mainly on the benefits of >> advancing technology. >> >> Indeed, they were originally going to write a book titled, “The Digital >> Frontier,” about the “cornucopia of innovation that is going on,” Mr. McAfee >> said. Yet as the employment picture failed to brighten in the last two >> years, the two changed course to examine technology’s role in the jobless >> recovery. >> >> The authors are not the only ones recently to point to the job fallout >> from technology. In the current issue of the McKinsey Quarterly, W. Brian >> Arthur, an external professor at the Santa Fe Institute, warns that >> *technology >> is quickly taking over service jobs, following the waves of automation of >> farm and factory work. “This last repository of jobs is shrinking — fewer of >> us in the future may have white-collar business process jobs — and we have a >> problem,” Mr. Arthur writes. * >> >> The M.I.T. authors’ claim that automation is accelerating is not shared by >> some economists. Prominent among them are Robert J. Gordon of Northwestern >> and Tyler Cowen of George Mason University, who contend that productivity >> improvement owing to technological innovation rose from 1995 to 2004, but >> has trailed off since. Mr. Cowen emphasized that point in an e-book, “The >> Great >> Stagnation,”<http://www.amazon.com/Great-Stagnation-Low-Hanging-Eventually-ebook/dp/B004H0M8QS>published >> this year. >> >> Technology has always displaced some work and jobs. Over the years, many >> experts have warned — mistakenly — that machines were gaining the upper >> hand. In 1930, the economist John Maynard Keynes warned of a “new disease” >> that he termed “technological unemployment,” the inability of the economy to >> create new jobs faster than jobs were lost to automation. >> >> But Mr. Brynjolfsson and Mr. McAfee argue that the pace of automation has >> picked up in recent years because of a combination of technologies including >> robotics, numerically controlled machines, computerized inventory control, >> voice recognition and online commerce. >> >> *Faster, cheaper computers and increasingly clever software, the authors >> say, are giving machines capabilities that were once thought to be >> distinctively human, like understanding speech, translating from one >> language to another and recognizing patterns. So automation is rapidly >> moving beyond factories to jobs in call centers, marketing and sales — parts >> of the services sector, which provides most jobs in the economy. * >> >> During the last recession, the authors write, one in 12 people in sales >> lost their jobs, for example. And the downturn prompted many businesses to >> look harder at substituting technology for people, if possible. Since the >> end of the recession in June 2009, they note, corporate spending on >> equipment and software has increased by 26 percent, while payrolls have been >> flat. >> >> Corporations are doing fine. The companies in the Standard & Poor’s >> 500-stock index are expected to report record profits this year, a total >> $927 billion, estimates FactSet Research. And the authors point out that >> corporate profit as a share of the economy is at a 50-year high. >> >> *Productivity growth in the last decade, at more than 2.5 percent, they >> observe, is higher than the 1970s, 1980s and even edges out the 1990s. Still >> the economy, they write, did not add to its total job count, the first time >> that has happened over a decade since the Depression*. >> >> The skills of machines, the authors write, will only improve. In 2004, two >> leading economists, Frank Levy and Richard J. Murnane, published “The New >> Division of >> Labor,”<http://www.amazon.com/New-Division-Labor-Computers-Creating/dp/0691124027/ref=sr_1_fkmr0_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1319409677&sr=1-1-fkmr0>which >> analyzed the capabilities of computers and human workers. Truck >> driving was cited as an example of the kind of work computers could not >> handle, recognizing and reacting to moving objects in real time. >> >> But last fall, Google announced that its robot-driven cars had logged >> thousands of miles on American >> roads<http://www.nytimes.com/2010/10/10/science/10google.html?adxnnl=1&adxnnlx=1319387802-nu3SGR8HFvctMORJfQXbtg>with >> only an occasional assist from human back-seat drivers. The Google >> cars, Mr. Brynjolfsson said, are but one sign of the times. >> >> As others have, he pointed to I.B.M.’s “Jeopardy”-playing computer, >> Watson, which in February beat a pair of human “Jeopardy” >> champions<http://www.nytimes.com/2011/02/17/science/17jeopardy-watson.html?_r=1&scp=1&sq=Computer%20Wins%20On%20%27Jeopardy%21%27:%20Trivial,%20It%27s%20Not%20&st=cse>; >> and Apple’s new personal assistant software, Siri, which responds to >> voice >> commands<http://bits.blogs.nytimes.com/2011/10/05/will-siri-bring-back-the-iphones-wow-factor/>. >> >> >> “This technology can do things now that only a few years ago were thought >> to be beyond the reach of computers,” Mr. Brynjolfsson said. >> >> Yet computers, the authors say, tend to be narrow and literal-minded, good >> at assigned tasks but at a loss when a solution requires intuition and >> creativity — human traits. A partnership, they assert, is the path to job >> creation in the future. >> >> “In medicine, law, finance, retailing, manufacturing and even scientific >> discovery,” they write, “the key to winning the race is not to compete >> *against >> *machines but to compete *with *machines.” >> >> >> http://www.nytimes.com/2011/10/24/technology/economists-see-more-jobs-for-machines-not-people.html?_r=1&nl=todaysheadlines&emc=tha26 >> >> >> >> __._,_.___ >> >> *Error! 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Groups Terms of Use <http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/>| Unsubscribe >> <[email protected]?subject=Unsubscribe> >> >> >> >> __,_._,___ >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Futurework mailing list >> [email protected] >> https://lists.uwaterloo.ca/mailman/listinfo/futurework >> >> >> >> >> -- >> Sandwichman >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Futurework mailing list >> [email protected] >> https://lists.uwaterloo.ca/mailman/listinfo/futurework >> >> > > > -- > Sandwichman > > > _______________________________________________ > Futurework mailing > [email protected]https://lists.uwaterloo.ca/mailman/listinfo/futurework > > > _______________________________________________ > Futurework mailing list > [email protected] > https://lists.uwaterloo.ca/mailman/listinfo/futurework > > -- Sandwichman
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