Keith, Something I forgot to mention but Koya Asumi brought it up. When accepting graduate students into a program, I always add 200 points to African American scores to estimate a true GRE. I have never been disappointed which suggests to me quite a cultural bias.
By the way, we had a woman from China live with us for a year who got a 2300 on her GREs. I guess she blew the English part and only got a 700. Bill Ward > > You are speaking of different IQ scores by groups. One fundamental > issue > is how IQ is measured. Is there now some standardized measure that > is > applicable equally across languages and cultures? Is there an IQ > test that > does not use a written language (such as English, Chinese, etc.)? > Is there > a test that is universally applicable? > >>>> > > Yes, chronometric tests, which are culturally objective, and which > measure > reaction times to very simple perceptual choices, or prompts, have a > high > correlation with the rather more typical IQ performance-tests which > have > been developed in the last 50 years or so. Such chronometirc tests > also > correlate closely with non-verbal, and largely culture-free IQ tests > which > use choices between graphic symbols of well-known (often natural) > objects. > Average IQ scores for the three main races of mankind -- African > blacks, > European whites and Orientals -- also correlate with average brain > size > (80/1267cc;100/1347cc;106/1364cc respectively). > > (AC) > >>>> > How do you know that the Ashkenazi Jews IQ is 116 and that of > Chinese in > coastal region is 106? Did they take a same test? Or were they > tested in > their respective > languages? If so, are the tests comparable? > >>>> > > Yes, care is taken to correlate them carefully in order to avoid > the > cultural bias that could otherwise invalidate results. I'd refer you > here > to books such as Arthur Jensen's "Bias in Mental Testing", "IQ and > the > Wealth of Nations" by Richard Lynn and Tatu Vanhanen, and "Race, > Evolution > and Behavior" by J. Philippe Rushton, which correlate and compare IQ > test > results among different races. > > (AK) > <<<< > There are individual variations in IQ. Some people are more > creative than > others, but are there group variations in creativity? I am not at > all > convinced that there are. > >>>> > > Creativity certainly depends on other factors than IQ (such as > persistence > at a particular skill or a particular problem) and there appears to > be no > direct relationship of creativity with IQ, but studies tend to show > that > almost all highly creative people (Nobel Prizewinners, for example) > seem to > require IQs above about 120/130. Arthur Jensen has written an essay > on this > -- "Giftedness and Genius: Crucial Differences" -- and this is in > "Intellectual Talent" (John Hopkins Univeristy Press), edited by C. > P. > Benbow and D. Lubinski. > > (AK) > <<<< > I'd much rather assume that all persons and groups are potentially > equally > creative. We know that creativity is culturally channelled. > Depending on > what is considered > important, people focus their creative vent in different > institutional > realms such as religion, art, music, literature, polity, etc. and > not > necessarily science and technology. > >>>> > > Yes, I'd like to assume this, too. > > (AK) > <<<< > If the Ashkenazi Jews seem to have the highest IQ among the human > race, > then that has to be explained. If coastal Chinese have higher IQ > than > inland Chinese, that has to be explained. > >>>> > > As far as the Ashkenazi (central European) Jews are concerned, a > sort of > double selection event seems to have taken place. Firstly, King > Boleslav of > Poland granted a charter to Jews from the east in 1264 (which > probably > attracted the more enterprising and intelligent), followed by > further waves > of Jews (again likely to be predominantly of successful Jews such > as > bankers who upset the powers-that-be) who were persecuted in > countries of > western Europe during the next few hundred years. By the mid 17th > century > about 30% of all the Jews in the world lived in Poland. From then > onwards, > all these Ashkenazi Jews in central Europe were then subjected to > repeated, > and often terrifying persecution which meant -- one assumes -- that > only > the brighter part of their population managed to survive. Then, of > course, > great numbers of the survivors left in a whoosh for America from > about > 1870s onwards, and a great deal of the remainder for Israel after > WWII. > > As for the Chinese (and Japanese, of course) of the eastern seaboard > of > Asia, it is now being increasingly believed (on the basis of DNA > sampling) > that this high-IQ branch of the human race arose from the first > large > migration out of Africa and along the sea coast eastwards at the > time of > the retreat of the penultimate Ice Age. By the time that the last > Ice Age > came down there was probably a distinct north-south divide in IQ. > When the > last Ice Age retreated and further migrations out of Africa took > place, > then a new "hybrid" east-west mixture of intermediate IQ developed > -- the > Europeans. > > (AK) > <<<< > Your post seems to imply that an important determinant of IQ is > education. > I agree. It is nurture and not nature. Dividing people by their > ascription > (as in Ashkenazi Jews and coastal Chinese) does little to explain > their > achievements. > >>>> > > Most of those who are actively engaged in studying and researching > IQ are > in large agreement that IQ depends mostly on genes but, of course, > cultural > and educational environment are also very important. It's a very > contentious subject, of course. I was very much a "nurturist" for > the first > -- what? -- 40 years of my life and I found the gathering evidence > from > research scientists to be very uncomfortable indeed because it ran > counter > to the whole of my political philosophy up until then. As for me, I > decided > over the last few years that the evidence wasn't going to disappear > and I > gradually became persuaded that individual achievement is due both > to genes > and environment. > > But I hope you will not be offended if I say that I don't want to be > drawn > into a controversial discussion of nature versus nurture. This > debate is > being carried on by far more knowledgeable person than me. The > reason I > wrote my original piece this morning is that I wanted to try and > sketch > what I thought would be the hubristic consequences of the clique > that is > now gathered around Bush in its desire to dominate future supplies > of > Middle East oil and gas. > > Keith > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- --- > -------------- > > Keith Hudson,6 Upper Camden Place, Bath BA1 5HX, England > Tel:01225 312622/444881; Fax:01225 447727; E-mail: > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > ________________________________________________________________________ > > ________________________________________________________________ GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO! Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less! Join Juno today! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/web/.
