Hi Ray, It's 3:00 am and I can't sleep. I spent five hours yesterday exploring with 2 classes what beginning teachers might do with Arthur Miller's 'Death of A Salesman'. Father/son relationships were discussed and the power of Miller's art won't leave me quite yet. That is a good thing, perhaps. I can always sleep later. It has allowed me to start a novel "Life of Pi" by Yann Martel. A quote by Martel in the introduction connects with what you have just written :
"If we, citizens, do not support our artists, then we sacrifice our imagination on the altar of crude reality and we end up believing in nothing and having worthless dreams." Pleasant dreams, Brian McAndrews > Selma, I don't believe that profits are obscene except that profits > that > are clearly hundreds of times the pay of the workers are an obscenity > because ultimately they are inefficient and counterproductive. I > think > most systems run by moral and wise people who believe > 1.) in the value of individuals and > 2.) in the necessity for every individual's contribution in the > development > of a society > 3.) as well as the opportunity to achieve happiness through the > success and > fulfillment of their talents and potential and > 4.) the development of a social consciousness as a higher good > > will probably be made to work as a result of an enlightened wisdom. > > There have been enlightened Aristocracies, Capitalists societies, > Traditional Societies, Democratic Socialist Societies, Theocracies, > Communist Societies and even benevolent Dictatorships, etc. etc. and > there > have been horrible examples of all of the above. How do you control > such > horrors? I've heard Golden Eras proposed by Keith and Harry and by > others > on this list at various times. I don't believe in Golden Eras. > Not > even in the Bel Canto which has an impressive set of artifacts left > behind. > If we had a chance to observe through a time capsule then we would > probably > find that all societies are temporal and struggle in similar fashions > within > their systems. That being said, I think the enemy here is not > systems > but ignorance, intolerance and a mind numbing insensitivity to the > empathy > that makes us all hurt when another individual is harmed, demeaned or > destroyed. What brings us all together to experience not only the > empathy > but then, as Brad said beautifully sometime ago, to progress to > sympathy > which gives both distance and genuine non enslaving help towards > healing and > growth. > > So, for me it is interesting to find why certain systems work one way > and > others another. How we can never lose sight of the humanity and the > necessity for growth as well as our need for each other's > contributions. > Also to remember that renewal itself can be stolen by the likes of > dictators > who are ruined and destroyed minds and who believe they would gain > their > healing through other's losses. The will to power, the will to > money, the > will to security through horror. We are individuals and that is all > we > are given except we are also beings that can connect and become > greater than > we are through that connection. There are times when each > individual must > lead and each individual must relinquish that leadership or the whole > will > fail. The maturity to be able to accept our path and be given the > ability > to "work it" successfully in a meaningful way for our life's journey > makes > what we do less an issue of choice than of discovery and acceptance. > Such > acceptance can only come from within for without it our creativity > that is > the birthright of every human is not available and the society has > failed. > Failure is individual and social. It is a synchronicity. > > Ray Evans Harrell > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Selma Singer" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > To: "Ray Evans Harrell" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Cc: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; "Ed Weick" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; "Brad > McCormick, Ed.D." <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; "Charles Brass" > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Sent: Monday, February 03, 2003 3:11 PM > Subject: Re: [Futurework] The world of work > > > > Just for purposes of discussion- can we try to think 'outside the > box' of > > capitalism as it exists today, especially in the U.S. > > > > Would most of you agree :-) (I don't know the symbol for > tongue-in-cheek) > > that, with all due respect to Harry, it might be possibleto control > > capitalism so that it works for the good of the general public, > including > > the capitalists? No, they would not be able to make their obscene > profits > > and salaries; but could there be incentives such that creativity > would be > > encouraged, especially since the risks would be reduced? > > > > Selma > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "Ray Evans Harrell" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > Cc: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; "Selma Singer" > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; > "Ed > > Weick" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; "Brad McCormick, Ed.D." > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; > > "Charles Brass" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > Sent: Monday, February 03, 2003 2:15 PM > > Subject: Re: [Futurework] The world of work > > > > > > > Selma said, > > > > is it possible to have an economic system in which labor is paid > for > the > > > > value of what that labor produces? > > > > > > I'm going out on a limb and say that isn't the contract with > labor. > > They > > > are the hired hands and don't create or capitalize the work. > America > > has > > > made the choice to not provide benefits through the government so > those > > have > > > to be negotiated with private companies who assume all the risk. > I > think > > > it is more than a little nuts but Americans are into "control" and > have > a > > > "God" complex that makes them unable to cooperate much with each > other > > > and you would believe King George still lived in Washington by the > way > > they > > > demean their representatives. Perhaps it is not tyranny but just > > > insensitivity > > > that we all feel and thus the necessity to brutally yell when > talking to > a > > > Senator or Representative. Like that Missouri Mule you have to > get > > their > > > attention first. > > > > > > The theory is that those who take the risk "deserve" a profit, > within > > > reason, for their investment and risk. Of course a worker risks > > whenever > > > they take one job over another. That is solved by making jobs > scarce > in > > > my business. > > > > > > The argument is on how much profit the investors, owners and > > > management deserve. And in how much they can take from a > society > > without > > > having the society go through the boom/bust constant revolution > cycle > that > > > the Chinese Communists were touting at the end of Mao tse Tung's > life. > > > China has many languages and cultures but they basically ARE > Chinese and > > > conceive of themselves as such. The US elite group today in the > US > > > cares only about being American if it is convenient and doesn't > cost > them > > > money. They border on if not cross that border into obscenity > with > > their > > > high salaries and perks beyond what even the Beethoven or > Einstein's of > > the > > > world could ever imagine. This is IMHO obscene in the profit > taking > > > practices with no social responsibility and a very aggressive > "winner > take > > > all" attitude. > > > > > > That is why my language, which is always tit for tat, has been > bordering > > on > > > "Turret's Syndrome" these days. I believe that tit for tat is the > only > > > possible > > > game scheme that does not destroy the house but they seem content > to > > > echo the old ghetto mentality in Washington when the Blacks burned > > > down their own houses to protest the death of their leader. It > is > the > > > old "Better Dead than Red" mentality that would destroy the world > if > > > they didn't get what they wanted. Or justifying the shooting of > > children > > > with the statement "Nits make Lice." That is the Wealthy > Republican > > > "Capitalist" stance today on work. > > > > > > Today we also have a confusion in that the Stockholders are > considered > the > > > owner/capitalists and that is the way that it is sold. Look at > all of > > > those Ads on TV about someone being an owner because they own > stock. > > > I think that is a stupid metaphor since they are more like > citizens in a > > > private club than owners. The only true owner is the one with > 51% of > > the > > > stock. > > > > > > If no one has that then it is a Feudal government structure with > > > an Aristocracy and citizens. The small shareholders are the > citizens > > > while the workers are the peasants. That is why the Democratic > > Government > > > must be strong enough to control these small corporate countries > or the > > > whole system will revert as happened prior to WW II when Hitler > who was > a > > > Socialist Emperor (How's that for an oxymoron? in spite of his > refusing > > to > > > take the title Kaiser) convinced the most intelligent private > citizen on > > the > > > planet to sell out and buy into genocide, just like the Americans > had in > > > the 19th century but without the intelligence. That should tell > you > > some- > > > thing about the worth of "intelligence" but we still scream that > the > > > children > > > don't have it and blame the schools. Were the Beatles > intelligent? > No > > > but they were rich, they didn't murder people and were on the side > of > > > the angels in the social issues and the broke the Knight barrier > without > > > selling out. So much for intelligence. > > > > > > Well I have to go teach opera singers. And if I hear another > American > > > say to my face that I could only do that in America or owe it to > American > > > private enterprise then they are in danger of this 61 year old man > > punching > > > them in the face. Oops that Turret's is tough stuff. > > > > > > REH > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > From: "Selma Singer" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > > To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; > > > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > > Cc: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > > Sent: Monday, February 03, 2003 9:37 AM > > > Subject: Re: [Futurework] The world of work > > > > > > > > > > I didn't mention that, in the midst of all this wonderful mutual > respect > > > and > > > > employee loyalty and 'fairness',etc. these employees were being > > > > systematically exploited with very low wages, extremely > hazardous > > working > > > > conditions, absolutely no retirement benefits of any kind-they > worked > > > until > > > > they could no longer work and then were left with nothing. > > > > > > > > They were grateful for the opportunity to feed their families > and have > > > > protection from the elements. > > > > > > > > Now here we come, again, to my perpetual question of Harry and > Arthur > > and > > > > the rest of you: > > > > > > > > > is it possible to have an economic system in which labor is > paid for > > the > > > > value of what that labor produces? > > > > > > > I would love to have some of you tell me how you interpret that > > question. > > > > > > > > Selma > > > > > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > From: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > > > To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; > > > > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > > > Cc: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > > > Sent: Monday, February 03, 2003 8:46 AM > > > > Subject: RE: [Futurework] The world of work > > > > > > > > > > > > > I also wonder what would have happened if anyone in Ed's > company > town > > > woke > > > > > up one morning and decided to write an essay on deforestation, > the > > need > > > > for > > > > > recycling, conservation, saving old growth forest, etc. Might > have > > > found > > > > > folks a bit less friendly. > > > > > > > > > > arthur > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > > From: Selma Singer [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] > > > > > Sent: Sunday, February 02, 2003 8:56 PM > > > > > To: Ed Weick; Brad McCormick, Ed.D.; Charles Brass > > > > > Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > > > Subject: Re: [Futurework] The world of work > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Ed, > > > > > > > > > > It's interesting to hear your description of the benevolence > of that > > > > company > > > > > because the Amoskeag situation, when they were doing well, was > very > > > > similar. > > > > > The relationship between the workers, middle management and > the > owners > > > was > > > > > excellent; there was mutual respect; many of the stories told > of > > fierce > > > > > loyalty on the part or employees; of being treated fairly and > > honestly, > > > > etc. > > > > > etc. etc. > > > > > > > > > > However, when trouble came, i.e., too much competition and not > enough > > > > work, > > > > > instead of upgrading the machinery and/or trying to somehow > reorganize > > > in > > > > > order to preserve jobs, the owners split the company into a > > > manufacturing > > > > > company and a holding company and took $18 million and put it > in the > > > > holding > > > > > company and the manufacturing company went down the tubes > along with > > the > > > > > 17,000 jobs. Many of the workers thought they had something to > do > with > > > the > > > > > accumulation of that $18 million and were resentful. > > > > > > > > > > "You do your work, you earn your pay"? whose work? whose pay? > like > > Enron > > > > > employees did their work and earned their pay? Like the Enron > > executives > > > > did > > > > > their work and earned their pay? > > > > > > > > > > Selma > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > > From: "Ed Weick" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > > > > To: "Selma Singer" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; "Brad McCormick, > Ed.D." > > > > > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; "Charles Brass" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > > > > Cc: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > > > > Sent: Sunday, February 02, 2003 5:46 PM > > > > > Subject: Re: [Futurework] The world of work > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Selma, when I was a teenager in the 1940s and 1950s I lived > and > > worked > > > > in > > > > > > company town, Ocean Falls, in way up coast British Columbia. > It > was > > a > > > > > pulp > > > > > > and paper town of some 3,000 in which the company owned > everything, > > > the > > > > > > houses, the store, the hospital, the schools, the hotel. > You name > > it, > > > > > they > > > > > > owned it. While one likes to think badly of capitalists, > and many > > > songs > > > > > > have been sung about owing one's soul to the company store, > it was > a > > > > very > > > > > > benevolent arrangement. Wages were good, rents were low, > and > > everyone > > > > was > > > > > > looked after. The company ran a swimming pool which > produced kids > > > that > > > > > went > > > > > > to the Olympics. It guaranteed summer employment, at good > rates > of > > > pay, > > > > > for > > > > > > all of the kids that went to university, me included. It's > high > > > school > > > > > > produced some of the best and brightest in British Columbia. > That > > was > > > > my > > > > > > experience of a company town. I would not have got the > education > > and > > > > > > opportunities I had if it had not been for a benevolent > capitalist. > > > > > > > > > > > > Problem: A few years after I left, Ocean Falls shut down, > never to > > be > > > > > > repeated. It was taken over by a larger pulp and paper > company, > and > > > its > > > > > > operations were moved to Vancouver Island. No company town. > No > > > > > benevolent > > > > > > capitalism. You do your work, you earn your pay. That's > all. > > > > > > > > > > > > Ed > > > > > > > > > > > > Ed Weick > > > > > > 577 Melbourne Ave. > > > > > > Ottawa, ON, K2A 1W7 > > > > > > Canada > > > > > > Phone (613) 728 4630 > > > > > > Fax (613) 728 9382 > > > > > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > > > From: "Selma Singer" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > > > > > To: "Ed Weick" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; "Brad McCormick, Ed.D." > > > > > > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; "Charles Brass" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > > > > > Cc: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > > > > > Sent: Sunday, February 02, 2003 3:42 PM > > > > > > Subject: Re: [Futurework] The world of work > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I am reading a most fascinating oral history of the > Amoskeag > > Textile > > > > > Mills > > > > > > > in Manchester, NH. They were around from about the 1830s > to the > > > 1930s; > > > > > at > > > > > > > their peak they were the largest textile mill in the world > with > > > 17,000 > > > > > > > workers, a million spiindles, etc. There are so many > aspects of > > what > > > > has > > > > > > > been discussed here that are manifested in these oral > histories. > > One > > > > > gets > > > > > > > what I believe must be a rather complete picture from top > > management > > > > > down > > > > > > to > > > > > > > the lowliest worker and horizontally across that entire > world at > > the > > > > > time > > > > > > > from the apartments owned by the company to the > relationships > with > > > the > > > > > > city > > > > > > > that was virtually founded by the mill owners, etc. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > A wonderful read. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Selma > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > > > > From: "Ed Weick" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > > > > > > To: "Brad McCormick, Ed.D." <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; "Charles > Brass" > > > > > > > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > > > > > > Cc: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > > > > > > Sent: Sunday, February 02, 2003 3:27 PM > > > > > > > Subject: Re: [Futurework] The world of work > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Brad McCormick: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > My understanding of pre-Industrial (pre-Enclosure, > etc.) > life > > > > > > > > > is a bit different: more like Brueghel paintings of > peasants > > > > > > > > > working-and-playing. Not what I would aspire to, but > a lot > > > > > > > > > better than being an early industrial worker. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I read the stuff a long time ago, so the references > are > > > > > > > > > lost, but a large part of the "moral" rationalization > of the > > > > > > > > > industrial system was that the peasants worked little > and > > > > > > > > > drank/screwed a lot. My understanding is that > > > > > > > > > peasants worked far fewer hours than early industrial > > > > > > > > > workers. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I don't disagree that peasants had their good times, > like > those > > > > > Breughel > > > > > > > > depicts in his paintings, but there were also very bad > times. > > > Being > > > > > at > > > > > > > the > > > > > > > > bottom of the European class system prior to the > industrial > > > > revolution > > > > > > > meant > > > > > > > > that you could suffer famines, wars, dispossession and > general > > > > kicking > > > > > > > > around. My own ancestors left Wuerttemburg or the > southern > > > > Rhineland > > > > > > > > probably in about 1815 or 1820 because the area had > overrun by > > > > > Napoleon, > > > > > > > had > > > > > > > > been pillaged blind by contending armies, had suffered > crop > > > failures > > > > > and > > > > > > > > starvation and was not a good place to live. Next, they > appear > > to > > > > > have > > > > > > > > found themselves in central Germany, near Halle. I have > no > idea > > > of > > > > > what > > > > > > > > they did there, or how they lived, but when Allexander > II of > > > Russia > > > > > > freed > > > > > > > > the serfs in the early 1860s the family migrated to the > Ukraine > > to > > > > > take > > > > > > up > > > > > > > > agricultural work. The conditions under which they > lived and > > > worked > > > > > > while > > > > > > > > there proved absolutely miserable and by the 1890s, > they'd had > > > > enough > > > > > > and > > > > > > > > started back to Germany. By then central and eastern > Europe > had > > > > > > > > industrialized and they wound up living and working in a > textile > > > > > center > > > > > > > near > > > > > > > > Lodz, Poland. My grandfather migrated to Canada in > 1913, but > my > > > > > > > grandmother > > > > > > > > and their seven kids remained stuck in one of the war > zones of > > > WWI. > > > > > > Most > > > > > > > of > > > > > > > > them didn't make it to Canada until the later 1920s. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I'm not saying that my family was chronically unhappy. > It's > > > > probable > > > > > > > that, > > > > > > > > as it moved around, it's various members had good times > and > bad, > > > > > perhaps > > > > > > > > played music and danced, and probably went to church and > > commented > > > > > > > > unfavourably on those who didn't. But everything I > heard my > > > > > > grandparents > > > > > > > > say when I was a child suggested hard, hard times. > Working in > > the > > > > > > > > > textile > > > > > > > > industry near Lodz was one of their better times because > they > > > could > > > > > save > > > > > > a > > > > > > > > little money, enough for my grandfather to buy passage > to > > Canada, > > > > and > > > > > > > > because several family members could get work. My > father, who > > was > > > > > > small, > > > > > > > > agile and clever, began work in the textile mill at age > seven > > > > because > > > > > > kids > > > > > > > > were needed to crawl into machinery and fix it so that > it > would > > > not > > > > > have > > > > > > > to > > > > > > > > be shut down. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Breughel, who lived in the 16th Century when times may > have > been > > > > > better, > > > > > > > > painted happy peasants dancing. However, he also knew > about > the > > > > other > > > > > > > side > > > > > > > > of life. To see what I mean, go to: > > > > http://artchive.com/ftp_site.htm > > > > > . > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Ed > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Ed Weick > > > > > > > > 577 Melbourne Ave. > > > > > > > > Ottawa, ON, K2A 1W7 > > > > > > > > Canada > > > > > > > > Phone (613) 728 4630 > > > > > > > > Fax (613) 728 9382 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > > > > > > Futurework mailing list > > > > > > > > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > > > > > > http://scribe.uwaterloo.ca/mailman/listinfo/futurework > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > > > Futurework mailing list > > > > > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > > > http://scribe.uwaterloo.ca/mailman/listinfo/futurework > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > > > Futurework mailing list > > > > > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > > > http://scribe.uwaterloo.ca/mailman/listinfo/futurework > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > > Futurework mailing list > > > > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > > http://scribe.uwaterloo.ca/mailman/listinfo/futurework > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > Futurework mailing list > > > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > http://scribe.uwaterloo.ca/mailman/listinfo/futurework > > > > _______________________________________________ > Futurework mailing list > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > http://scribe.uwaterloo.ca/mailman/listinfo/futurework _______________________________________________ Futurework mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://scribe.uwaterloo.ca/mailman/listinfo/futurework
