Harry, I wasn't sure what the point of your post was until I saw it at the end. Please tell me if I am misinterpreting what you are trying to convey:
I understand you to be saying that racist epithets have their place in our conversations; that they can be used to provoke thought in a way that could not be done otherwise; that those of us who object to the stereotypes (whether based on factual evidence or not; stereotypes can never be accurate because the characteristics of the group never apply completely to any one individual) are overreacting to a way of speaking that is generally harmless and we should in no way try to keep people from any of these kinds of speech- I don't mean by legal or formal restrictions of any kind; I think you are saying that it makes no sense at all to point out that these kinds of speech can cause harm because that simply is not true. Please correct me if I am misinterpreting what you posted, Harry. Selma ----- Original Message ----- From: "Harry Pollard" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "Selma Singer" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Cc: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Monday, March 17, 2003 2:05 PM Subject: Re: [Futurework] An apology requested ( was: Perle's body language) > Selma and Devorah. > > Some of my best friends are Jews. In fact, most of my long time friends are > Jews. > > A disadvantage of my upbringing was that my parents never told me that > Jews, or blacks, or Asians, were different. They sent me, unknowing, out on > to the road. > > Some snapshots: > > As a teenager, I did notice two newsagents - a Gentile 'Peers', and a Jew > 'Arams'. Peers in a good location would open at 9 and close at 5. I would > run into Arams as he left his shop at 8 pm at night. He worked hard. > Although we were friends, I knew he was actually part of a Jewish > conspiracy to dump Peers. (And he was so determined, he did it by hard work.) > > When I chaired London's Young Liberals, we dropped off at Harry Gold's > house in the East End of London. This was my first experience of a Jewish > Mother. As Harry went about his business, she followed him, demanding that > he go to Synagogue, insisting there are some nice girls there, etc., etc. > > Harry mostly smiled and mollified, then gave her a kiss and we left. But, I > had met the Jewish Mother we've heard so much about. As the French, or even > the British would say - formidable. The funny thing was that she was like > my Irish mother (replace Synagogue with Oratory). Had I not known that the > Jews were a practically different species, I would have come to a tentative > conclusion that all mothers are pretty much the same. > > Along with Harry Gold, Jack Silver was on my Executive. I never worked it > out, but those Jews were probably up to something devious. > > I did quite a bit of lecturing when I arrived in New York for 6 weeks > before heading for Canada. In one speech, I used the N-word for black > audiences, and the K-word for Jewish audiences. I would ask a question in > which I would insert the word. Then after the commotion had died down, I > would ask what the question was. No-one knew. Which would allow me to make > my point. That they shouldn't allow emotional words to stop them thinking - > which reaction is the intend of the racists. > > Of course, I was 30, courageous (and a bit of a prig) all of which led to > the experiments which did successfully make a point. I would be scared to > try it now - though since then I have tried a similar experiment on radio. > > I tried the K-word on Canadian Jews, but it seemed to have no reaction. > Unlike the New York Jews, the Canadian Jews were obviously part of a > conspiracy to ruin my speeches. I knew it! > > Because there were so many socially conscious Jews at the Henry George > School in New York (it was founded by a Jew) I thought in Toronto that a > class at the Young Mens Hebrew Association would be highly successful, but > the Secretary told me: "Harry, Jews are no different from Gentiles in their > approach to politics and economics." > > Why did he tell me that? What was his hidden agenda? > > We get to know each other very well as we exchange thoughts on the list. > Keith is a pretty good bloke with a mind that ranges far. So, he brought > into discussion some thoughts on Jews in high office. > > The reaction from Devorah was completely uncalled for. It's understandable, > but out of context. I want no restriction placed on Keith's thinking. It is > often too good - though, as I've told him - he needs a little work on AIDS > and Nuclear Power. > > I fear we have a new class of people who might be called the > Anti-Anti-Semites, or the Anti-Anti-Blacks. They jump on every real or > imagined slight and make a Federal case out of it. So, for example, we can > talk about white thugs, but are forbidden to talk about black thugs. We can > talk of conspiracies (we do all the time, gang, don't we?) - but not of > Jewish conspiracies. > > We are so afraid of being thought anti-Semitic, or racist, that we don't > talk about things we should talk about. That's a pity. > > Arthur is one of the nicest people on the list (he even puts up with me) > yet he is completely wrong when he says "He uttered out loud what is best > kept in the pub or club. He crossed the line." > > In the pub and club is exactly where such talk should not be kept. It is > there that latent anti-Semitism comes oozing out. It's interesting and when > I encounter it, I say nothing. I merely listen and observe. It's > interesting to me to find out how they think. The only difference between > the pub and the club is perhaps the cockney and Oxbridge accents. > > The place for criticism of the Jews is out on the table where everyone can > see it. That's healthy. But we dare not do that. It would be anti-Semitism. > > When we explain prejudice in my courses, I often use: "Bill, the Australian > did me wrong. I hate Bill." > > That's OK. > > "Bill, the Australian did me wrong. I hate Australians." > > That's not OK. That's silly. It's also prejudice. > > Do Jews rub each other's backs - "conspire". Of course. Now, is that an > anti-Semitic remark? > > Harry > -------------------------------------------------------------------------- > Selma wrote: > > >I don't want anyone to "lighten up" when it comes to racism and sexism or > >class issues. Under the guise of "just' stereotypes there have been more > >horrors committed that any of ua want to think about > > > >What we're talking about here has recently been very much in the news with > >the issue of racial profiling. It is one thing to acknowledge that there are > >differences between and among groups; that is simply the reality. When we > >then go on to assume that because an individual belongs to a group, that > >individual necessarily shares all the general characteristics of the group, > >good or bad, we're doing a terrible injustice to both the group and the > >individual > > > >A very good example is your statement that Keith was just "being British". > >If I were British I would be insulted by the implication that all Brits > >stereotype in the way the Keith does, and especially because he makes those > >statements as though the stereotypes are genetically based. Outrageous! > > > >Selma > > > > > >----- Original Message ----- > >From: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > >To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; > ><[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > >Cc: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > >Sent: Monday, March 17, 2003 11:24 AM > >Subject: RE: [Futurework] An apology requested ( was: Perle's body language) > > > > > > > I am trying to get us to "lighten up" Who among us does not harbour > > > stereotypes of one sort or another? The problem arises when we try to > >make > > > them operational by referring to intelligence or, in the case of athletes, > > > reflexes, etc. The problem also arises when we bring these stereotypes > >into > > > the open. > > > > > > In all our extended families we maintain the peace by NOT mentioning > >uncles > > > or aunts or brothers past behaviour. > > > > > > In the global extended family we might do well to maintain peaceful > > > relations and conversation by not using stereotypes to justify the overt > > > behviour of one group or another. > > > > > > arthur > > > ****************************** > Harry Pollard > Henry George School of LA > Box 655 > Tujunga CA 91042 > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > Tel: (818) 352-4141 > Fax: (818) 353-2242 > ******************************* > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ---- > > --- > Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. > Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). > Version: 6.0.462 / Virus Database: 261 - Release Date: 3/13/2003 > _______________________________________________ Futurework mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://scribe.uwaterloo.ca/mailman/listinfo/futurework
