In that context why not use a solid text editor (TextMate, Gedit, others) and command line tools for compilation? Often times those tools are all thats available to new languages or all thats common between languages.
Many options exist for editors that have filebrowsers, syntax highlighting, and autoformatting. Essentially the bare minimum tools needed from an IDE. To add a bit more anecdotal evidence, all 3 years of my high school CS curriculum was done in Visual Studio. There was a bit of time spent dealing with the IDE for basic command line applications that could have been done more easily. Later on the IDE became necessary as we wrote GUI applications for MFC. Then in college there was a bit of pain as I had to learn how to use text editors and command line tools instead of an IDE. So some examples there of the ups and downs of IDE vs. text-editor. Theres also the classic argument that you learn to write better code without an IDE because you feel more pain over basic syntax errors and learn how to organize code to find bugs without an IDE. How much GUI work are you doing in your Java courses? IDEs are a big help there. Any thoughts on letting students choose their own tools? Some may gravitate towards an IDE while others may find raw text without all of the extra doodads easier to focus on. On Tue, 2008-08-19 at 22:11 -0400, Vern Ceder wrote: > I have used eclipse to teach Java for the past 5 years now, and > sometimes the overhead, particularly for the little programs (usually < > 100 lines) we do at this level, has always struck me as a bit high. If I > had to code Java, I probably would use it, but for Python, I have to > admit to being an emacs guy most of the time. > > For my Java class I really want to spend as little time as possible on > the IDE, and like you say, eclipse does take some time to learn. Not > that Netbeans is brilliant, but it is somewhat cleaner than eclipse. > I've also looked at teaching IDE's like DrJava and BlueJ, but both of > those strike me as a bit too pared down. It's a tricky choice, and all > I'm certain of is that I haven't been happy with my pick since maybe > Turbo C 3.0.... ;) > > Cheers, > Vern > > James Scott Jr wrote: > > NetBeans vs Eclipse ? > > > > For some cases it maybe possible/practical to pick a different IDE for > > the given task at hand. However, there is nothing like investing > > sufficient time in one IDE to maximize your personal productivity. > > > > If you take a little time to learn the tools, I'll bet is can be > > customized to meet your exact needs(Emacs/Vi/... anyone). > > > > I choose eclipse because it contains a plugin structure that is VERY > > well supported and actively developed. This means I am offered every > > language I plan to use, and the editor itself has great keyboard and GUI > > features. Yes, its and effort to learn; but it is very useful out of > > the box for a newbie. > > > > Consider non-obvious options, like DUAL 20inch WIDE SCREENS, to maximize > > the tools screen space and effect. Sometimes a real good desk chair > > also helps. > > > > Anyway, I think eclipse is worth the effort. To use it as a part of > > class on programming requires the same amount of effort and any other > > modern IDE; use what you know. > > > > Ok, so it looks like I'm the sole RED HAT Fedora user, and maybe the > > eclipse lone ranger... > > > > James, > > > > > > > > > > On Fri, 2008-08-15 at 13:03 -0400, Vern Ceder wrote: > >> Hi Bud, > >> > >> Yeah, I've been looking at using the NetBeans IDE for my Java > >> programming classes rather than Eclipse, since it's a bit less cluttered. > >> > >> So far, I like what I see. > >> > >> Now, if it only did Python/Jython as well... > >> > >> Cheers, > >> Vern > >> > >> Bud Manz wrote: > >>> Hi all, > >>> > >>> Has anyone tried out the NetBeans IDE (www.netbeans.org)? I downloaded > >>> it the other day and have been playing with their 6.5 Beta; it features > >>> an awesome PHP editor! There are other languages that are supported > >>> such as, C/C++, Swing, Ruby, and Java. And, best of all, it is free! ;-) > >>> > >>> I just wanted to make you guys aware of it. > >>> > >>> Have a great weekend! > >>> Bud > >>> > >>> > >>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > >>> > >>> _______________________________________________ > >>> Fwlug mailing list > >>> [email protected] > >>> http://fortwaynelug.org/mailman/listinfo/fwlug_fortwaynelug.org > >> > >> ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > >> > >> _______________________________________________ > >> Fwlug mailing list > >> [email protected] > >> http://fortwaynelug.org/mailman/listinfo/fwlug_fortwaynelug.org > -- -- Jon Bartels [EMAIL PROTECTED] _______________________________________________ Fwlug mailing list [email protected] http://fortwaynelug.org/mailman/listinfo/fwlug_fortwaynelug.org
