Hi Dark, Hmm...I hadn't quite thought of it that way, but I do see your point. >From a purely exploration point of view 3d type games can be more frustrating and more complex because you now have six primary directions instead of four to deal with, and that in turn requires more complex controls and navigation aids. Moreover things that would be relatively easy in a 2d side-scroller now become more complicated just because of the added dimensions of the game world.
For example, in a3d FPS game in order to pass through a door you have to center your character in the doorway and of course be facing the right direction. In an audio only game that is sometimes hard to do unless there is some sound queue such as wind or a beep that helps orient you to that doorway. Even then in games like Sarah I plow face first into a wall when I actually intended to walk through the door, and have to sidestep left or right to center myself so I can go through it. In a 2d side-scroller I wouldn't' have that problem because to walk through a doorway all I need to do is be walking in that direction. So 3d does have additional complications that could get in the way of game play. One thing I know for sure a lot of blind gamers have an underdeveloped sense of spatial orientation. Its not true for everyone, but it is common enough that I've heard complaints about games like Shades of Doom and Teraformers that they are too hard, too complicated, and that such and such person couldn't figure them out. This is a serious concern since both Shades of Doom and Teraformers are actually 2d FPS games and are only concerned with the north, south, east, and west cardinal directions. They lack an additional third axis of movement of climbing up and down on ladders, ropes, vines, and so forth. If they have difficulties with Shades of Doom, which I found to be very easy to navigate using the aids, I don't think they could ever hope to manage something more complex with rooms stacked above and below them as well as the regular north, south, east, and west directions. So from a purely exploration point of view 2d side-scrollers probably are better for the majority of blind gamers since it removes a lot of the visual complexity from the game as well as doesn't require a good sense of spatial orientation. Plus 2d side-scrollers are easier to adapt to audio since the audio requirements are much much simpler. All I have to do is use the 2d stereo pan control of the API to pan sounds left or right where as with a 3d FPS I need a more complicated virtual 3d audio API and a 5.1 surround sound setup to really do it justice. In the end as much as I hate to admit it you are right in saying that 2d games lend themselves to an instant engagement for the player and doesn't require much forethought about the controls, navigation aids, and interpreting the environment. All you have to worry about is using up arrow to climb up, down arrow to climb down, press left to go left, and press right to go right. Since it isn't as complicated the gamer can focus on the game and exploration more than in a 3d game. Cheers! On 4/13/13, dark <[email protected]> wrote: > Hi Tom. > > that's fair enough, and as I said, I have nothing against an accessible 2D > game, it's just that when I see people thinking that Q9 is a comparable game > > to megaman or even double dragon I do feel a little sad. On the T2002 > turrican windows remake forums, one chap mentioned that T2002 was the game > he loaded most in windows, and I have to agree. If I have a spare half an > hour and want to play a game but don't want the complexity of an rpg, > complex stratogy game or similar, I fire up T2002 and go through one of the > > larger levels, trying to discover more. Indeed, I first ran across the > turrican remake in 2006, round about the same time I found shades of doom, > and while I spent lots of time playing shades I'd imagine I probably spent > more on Turrican, not to mention that was the point I acquired the Megaman > aniversery collection so got to try all the nes megaman games I'd missed in > > the 80s. > > I think that is actually part of the question. A game like shades or even > papasangre (something I've been playing recently), which is an fps movement > > system, requires considderably more concentration, mental mapping etc to > play, an d a 3D game would likely require more still. Does this mean such > games shouldn't be made? heck no, I've had a lot of fun from such games over > > the years, however, thinking about pure exploration which is one of the > major things I enjoy in a game like Turrican, it considderably helps if your > > first concern is not whether your facing the right way or can remember all > the keys, or use the object navigator to wander around, but simply what is > around the next corner, in the next chamber etc. That is it for me with > Turrican, my central thought is the exploration, not navigating the game. > > I think this would be one advantage of 2D games, if properly designed even > in audio. Since the navigation system is! simpler, there is an immediacy > that makes the exploration the formost thing, rather the same way there is > in a text adventure game (which likely also explains why I've been having so > > much fun with Eamon deluxe recently), where as even in the best designed > first person game, there is a level of concentration and engagement required > > from the player that gets in the way if you like. > > it's rather like instruments. I've always said myself I enjoy singing more > than playing any instrument, since in singing you are! the instrument, and > all the physical feedback of what your doing, the consciousness of your > body's position, your muscles etc is immediately and obviously to hand. > There is nothing betwene! you and your technique. With other instruments > though, say a flute, you need to physically master the insturment, you don't > > get that physical feedback or sensation, and your technique needs to be in > balance with your pressing of the flute keys (this was in fact why i > switched from being a wind player to being a singer). With a violin, things > > are even harder, since you are at second remove from the instrument and > aren't even pressing keys, your using a bow to interact, meaning that > connectivity is even harder to achieve. > > For a sighted person of course, none of this applies, since a sighted person > > has immediate and uncomplicated access to all in game information thanks to > > top down perception. They do not see! something and think "is that an enemy? > > a power up, or what?" they simply see it and instantly identify it, same > with the space around them, and this applies equally to any game. > > This isn't to say of course that games which require more complex work or > engagement aren't a good idea, afterall, racing and vehicle sim games have > > a very similar catagory and learning curve, (even for sighted players given > > the inequity in controls), and can be lots of fun, and I've certainly had > fun with the more complex audio games myself, only to note one distinct > advantage that 2d games in audio, even ones with sufficiently explorable > maps might have over 3d, an obvious and instant engagement to the player, > letting the player focus more completely on the game and the exploration of > > it's world, than in interpreting the environment to which they have limited > > audio access. > > Beware the grue! > > Dark. > > > --- > Gamers mailing list __ [email protected] > If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to > [email protected]. > You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at > http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. > All messages are archived and can be searched and read at > http://www.mail-archive.com/[email protected]. > If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, > please send E-mail to [email protected]. > --- Gamers mailing list __ [email protected] If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to [email protected]. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/[email protected]. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to [email protected].
