Hi Dark, All of that makes sense to me. Although, as a commercial developer myself I have financial reasons for not adding a very sophisticated level editor to my games.
In your message below you gave two examples where an FPS game like Shades of Doom could be modified to create a game where the player infiltrates the HQ of a rival gang or comes up with an SF mod fighting robots etc. That's certainly all well and good for the end user, because they can pay their $30 and then use the games level editor to create an unlimited number of new games by modifying it, but bad for commercial developers because he or she can't sell what is essentially already available by modifying the existing game. So from that point of view I think if I add a level editor to my games it would have to be more on par with a map editor. That is you can expand the number of levels in the game by creating new maps, moving the existing items such as doors, keys, and enemies around as you like but can not change sound effects or the game play through the level editor. This would make it possible to expand the game with new content while not giving the customer enough tools to create new games that would impact the developer's ability to create new games and sell them for a small profit. Its hard enough for an audio game developer to make anything off a game without engineering the means to put himself out of business. So I guess it really comes down to the fact if the developer can afford to give away tools that lets end users do what they want with the product. Its one thing when we consider the new Swamp campaign editor, because Aprone isn't out to make money off the game. All of it is supported through donations and such. Its quite another when you consider GMA, PCs, and USA Games are attempting to sell games and a full editor that gives the end customer unlimited leeway to create new levels, change sounds, whatever would probably hurt the developer in the end. as they wouldn't be able to sell new games. Cheers! On 4/8/13, dark <[email protected]> wrote: > Hi tom. > > Well I don't disagree that for programmers more complex editers are a > distinct advantage, for the reasons you describe and for changing behaviour, > > however for everyone who is not! a programmer, (which comprises a large > group of people), the situation is different. > > Also, just because you have an engine that doesn't have scripting, that > doesn't mean you can't create different things. > > Imagine for a second that shades of doom had a level editer. You could with > > this editer create entirely new maps, placing enemies where you want them > along with weapons or deciding to have the game set them at random. > That already would offer a huge amount of customization, since in a game > like shades maps make a lot of difference and the behaviour of different > enemies is tactically distinct enough for players to create some quite > unique situations, especially when you add in doors and keycards to create > maze puzzles. > > Lets say however, the editer would let you do a little more. You could mod > the game's sounds and add in your own for each pack, and you could change > some of the properties of enemies, namely their affective range, what damage > > they do, and what health they had. > > Even if you couldn't change the weapons, this would already let you create > something quite different. You could for instance replace the mutant humans > > and other sounds with human ones and create a game where you infiltrated the > > hq of a criminal gang. > > You could replace the sounds with robotic ones and give everyone ranged > attacks and make an sf game etc. > > Even without changing the basic weaponry or capabilities of your character, > > much less anything more fundamental in the engine, you could, through > changing just the environment, redesigning the layout and altering some > enemy properties, create an entirely different game from the original > shades. > > > This is actually how the turrican editer works on a graphical level. Same > gameplay, different enemies ad properties, very! different layout. > > Of course, altering properties on a flip down menue or modding sounds isn't > > necessary either for a full editer. Even if a shades editer was made where > you could only move game objects around, players could still create some > vastly different mazes and configurations of enemy position, locked doors > etc, and thus change shades of doom from a game with 9 levels who's layout > you can learn quite successfully, to a game with many more who's layout you > > have to relearn with each new level pack, a challenge for everyone. > > Beware the Grue! > > Dark. --- Gamers mailing list __ [email protected] If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to [email protected]. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/[email protected]. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to [email protected].
