Hi Damien, Ok, I think before you can really understand my opinion, where I am coming from, I think you and the others need to know something about me personally. My life experiences, what I do for a living, etc all have help shaped my opinion on this issue and may seam rather drastic or extreme compared to your own opinions as a result. Never-the-less who I am and what I believe is none-the-less the sum total of my life experiences with working on computers over many years both as a sighted user and as a blind user. For starters back in the mid 1990's I began using Windows 3.1 and later Windows 95 when I still had some useful vision remaining. Eventually around 95 my vision got too bad to be able to read the text clearly so I got Jaws to read the text on the screen but I could still see a dialog box, buttons, check boxes, etc even if I couldn't actually read the text on the screen. As a result I got enough experience with Windows to use it as a sighted user uses it for a little while and completely understand where they are coming from on this issue from a visual point of view. However, for the past 12 years or so I have been totally blind and totally dependant on Jaws or Window-Eyes to use my computer. As a result I also know full well what it is like to use a computer from a blind man's point of view. It is a totally different experience when things that are visually friendly are not exactly blind friendly, because how we operate computers are inharently different a lot of the time. For example, when Jaws or Window-Eyes reads a web page the screen reader often reformats it so that it is contextually more understandable than the way it is visually being shown on screen. This is certainly not bad in most cases, but it also makes a big difference between the way we understand the layout of a web page and the way it actually is. So if someone tries to describe where something is on screen or we try and tell them there is a lot of room for confusion because the way a blind person and a sighted person view that web page, dialog box, whatever is completely different because how it is shown and described to us via our screen reader. I think because I started using computers as a sighted user, not a blind user, I'd prefer to be able to operate my system in amanner a sighted person does rather than have special accessibility modes, be able to use classic mode, whatever as that is contrary to what the sighted user does. I think to truly be equal with our sighted peers we need to be able to interact with our computers just like they do, and make the default way of doing things as accessible as possible. For that reason I force myself to learn how they operate the computer, use the more visually friendly start menu, etc so I can be equal with them as much as possible. Since the new Windows 7 start menu is fully accessible anyway I don't see going back to a classic start menu as a big deal. What you are calling your rights I see nothing more as a want. It is a want because it is what you are use to for the past 15 years, what you like, etc and has absolutely nothing to do with accessibility what so ever in this case. The other important reason I feel this way has to do with my job. While most people on list know I am a programmer most of the time I make money by doing general tech support work locally. Since all of my customers are sighted, not blind, i have to be able to relate to them as a sighted user and not as a blind user. For that reason if I am doing a tech support call I might tell the client to double left click on this, right click that, or select this or that from the control panel etc. It would make no sense for me to give them directions using hundreds of hot keys they don't know, or give them directions based on classic view settings as most sighted computers aren't setup that way to begin with. I quite litterally have to know and understand how the clients operate their computers, from a purely sighted point of view, to help them. For example, Windows Vista has a web view and a classic view for the Windows control panel. While I personally like the classic control panel myself that's not going to do me any good if I am talking to a client on the phone that has Windows Vista configured using the default web view. I still need to be able to tell them where to go and what link to click on to bring this or that setting up etc. Therefore as a blind tech support specialist I have to work in a sighted man's world everyday and can't afford to let my own personal likes/dislikes get in the way of how my clients' computer is setup and operated. So I generally configure my computer the same way they do so I am familiar with what they need help with, and I am also in my own way equal with them too. I am interacting with my computer as a sighted user does, as much as possible, and that makes me feel good. Finally, there is a time when configuring or formatting something for accessibility and not doing so is a good thing and a bad thing. Let's go back to the web page example for a moment as this is a good one to talk about. When it comes to tables Jaws by default reformats the table and puts it into a list instead of displaying the table as it appears on screen with columns and rows. Often times this becomes problematic as you lose any context of the data being shown. This is a primary case of where reformating the web page to make it "more accessible" is a problem instead of a big help. On Linux using the Orca screen reader with Firefox no reformating of web pages is ever performed. A lot of users coming from Windows who used Jaws all of their life typically have a problem with this because they were never taught how web pages are actually laid out for sighted users, and all they know is how Jaws presents web pages to them and assume that is how the web pages are visually setup. I call that a serious problem in my book as they are being taught to use this or that website in a way contrary to how it actually is laid out in reality. At any rate with Orca though I can look at a complex table and use the left and right arrow keys to move from column to column or row by row to see things more or less in their contectual context. The way it is displayed to a sighted user and not have the screen reader scramble everything and spit it back out at me in some format it thinks would be more accessible for me. Reformating the table in some cases makes matters worse rather than better for the VI computer user. Again this doesn't make Firefox for Linux inaccessible, but the way stuff is presented is quite a bit different than you normally get on Windows. Basicly, all I am saying is I have seen it both ways here. Yeah, I agree that it would be nice if Microsoft would keep classic mode around etc for those users who prefer it and so on, but I also believe if we are going to keep up with our sighted peers we need to be able to use our computers the same way the do with equal access to the same user interface they have. I don't believe we should use one user interface because we are blind and everyone use another. That's not necessary, and I believe further alienates us from the rest of the mainstream population. I believe in better integration between blind and sighted user interfaces not separation. When changes come the best thing to do is not fight it, but learn to adapt and use what we have been given. When I hear you say that we should stand up for our rights to have classic mode to me? it basicly reminds me of a blind man jumping up and down screaming, "I'm blind so everyone treat me different! Do what I say because I want a special computer mode or I'll sue you!" So instead of accepting these changes, "rolling with the change, " as my mother-in-law always says, you want to go to war over a new interface you haven't used, haven't even tried yet, and isn't even an accessibility problem. The one and only reason I believe you are doing so much complaining is it is different from classic mode and you personally don't want to change. You want to upgrade, but you don't want things to change. Unfortunately, in a case like this you have to decide one way or the other and it doesn't cut both ways here. You can't have your cake and eat it too.
Cheers! On 7/9/10, Damien Pendleton <[email protected]> wrote: > Hi Thomas, > The problem here is, even some sighted people don't know how to use it. > Heck, I have trouble getting somebody sighted to help me do a reinstall of > XP simply because they don't know how radio buttons work, etc, etc. > What I'm trying to say is, while there are maybe a load of people who will > benefit from the upgrade, newbies and VI users do not, and it's time more > people started fighting for their rights. > Like I said before, if blind people just go with the flow then how on earth > are other people in this world going to be able to cater for us? > Regards, > Damien. --- Gamers mailing list __ [email protected] If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to [email protected]. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/[email protected]. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to [email protected].
