Ah fair enough. I slightly missunderstood, sinse i seemed to think you were
indicating that units effectiveness simply increased for turns of
inactivity. While that could make for an interesting game mechanic, it
doesn't really represent how rest works at all.
Beware the Grue!
Dark.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Milos Przic" <[email protected]>
To: "Gamers Discussion list" <[email protected]>
Sent: Thursday, June 21, 2012 4:31 PM
Subject: Re: [Audyssey] Realism in military stratogy games
Hi Dark,
That's more or less what I thaught. A certain number of turns would
encreas the effectiveness of the unit, and when it reaches the maximum it
starts to fall after a turn or after, for example, every two turns of
inactivity.
Milos Przic
msn: [email protected]
skype: Milosh-hs
----- Original Message -----
From: "dark" <[email protected]>
To: "Gamers Discussion list" <[email protected]>
Sent: Thursday, June 21, 2012 12:10 AM
Subject: Re: [Audyssey] Realism in military stratogy games
Hi Milo.
That is a good point, though I confess this isn't someone I've heard of
in military terms.
however I'm not sure about the replication of the mechanic as a simple
cumulative chance, sinse it's equally possible for an army unit to be sat
around with nobody to fight and no new orders for so long that their
drill becomes stale and they become less! effective, ven if they aren't
foraging on the land. Plus, from a game balance point of view if a unit
can become better and better by doing nothing, this isn't much insentive
to the player to use that unit.
I'd probably suggest that rest be replicated as it in in a mud, where for
a certain amount of actions the unit will be fine, however after a given
point of moving, fighting, deploying or other actions the effectiveness
of the unit decreases until it spends a turn doing nothing, ie, the
prolonged forced activity has tired out the soldiers.
Beware the grue!
Dark.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Milos Przic" <[email protected]>
To: "Gamers Discussion list" <[email protected]>
Sent: Wednesday, June 20, 2012 8:48 PM
Subject: Re: [Audyssey] Realism in military stratogy games
Hi Dark,
Good point. I would add one more thing to make things ever more
realistic. In the military academies all over the World a strategy of
vojvojda Zivojin Misic is being studied. The duke (vojvoda) was the
leader of the first army during the World War I, and the army faught the
austro hungarians at the river of Kolubara near valjevo, Serbia. Without
going into many details, he simply let the soldiers to rest enough, and
the trupes of the Austro Hungarians were defeeted. So,in the terms of
gaming, and let's take TOC as an example again, the more soldiers march,
the less possible is for them to win in a turn of the battle. The more
turns they rest, the bigger possibility to win a turn...
Your thaughts?
Milos Przic
msn: [email protected]
skype: Milosh-hs
----- Original Message -----
From: "dark" <[email protected]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Wednesday, June 20, 2012 11:32 AM
Subject: [Audyssey] Realism in military stratogy games
Hi.
At the moment I've just started reading the sharpe series of books by
Bernard cornwell, a set of books about a British rifleman set before
and during the early 1800's, who starts off as a private and rises to
become an officer, fighting first in the battles in India then in the
napoleonic wars in flanders, spain and france, (I've read some of these
before and seen the tv series with sean been, but I'd not read the ones
set early in Sharpe's life in India).
Cornwell is very historically accurate with the events, tactics and
technology of the time, and indeed even when he takes poetic license he
explains exactly what license he has taken in historical notes, so as
well as being pretty good stories in their own right, the sharpe books
give a real idea of how battles were fought at that time in history,
(cornwell has also written similar books set in other historical
periods, but the sharpe series are his most famous).
The one thing however that really strikes me reading these books from a
gaming perspective, is just how inadequate so many games are in
portraying the situation, supplies, and tactics required by a miliary
force.
Even in time of conflict for instance, you don't have even an
approximation of the sort of situations and decisions that make up a
ilitary campaigne.
To illustrate in the book I'm reading now, Sharpe's Triump
(chronologicaly second in the series), two, a battle is taking place
betwene a very large army formed of a confederation of the Mahrata
indian princes, and two much smaller forces under the joint command of
Sir arthur wellsley, later known as the duke of wellington.
The indian force is ten times the size of the british force, and has a
far greater load of artiliary behind them. Thus, in any purely numeric
situation such as that in Toc, they should pretty much automatically
win.
however, there are several factors working against them.
The bulk of the indian force are not carrying their own supplies,
meaning that they are foraging the countryside for provisions,
(including taking it from the local population), thus meaning that
sinse resources in any given area are limited when it comes to
supporting such a huge encampment, they are on a severe time limit.
The british forces however carry their own food supplies with them.
While this does give them advantages in terms of maneuverability and
time, it also dictates their movements quite severely, sinse the food
and other supplies are carried by bullock carts, which require roads on
which to move, and also which obviously can't move too fast.
Then, there is the matter of formation. One of the advantages the
british army at that time had against a larger force was that british
army fought in just two ranks. The front rank would fire, then kneel
and reload their weapons while the rank behind them fired. This two
rank formation also let them more easily surround a larger enemy force.
The distadvantage however, is that this formation was useless at
stopping cavalry, sinse horses were fast enough to close quickly, break
through the ranks and do huge amounts of damage, thus forcing the
british soldiers to break their formation and form defensive squares
whenever they came upon cavalry units (and didn't have any of their own
cavalry to protect against them).
On the other hand, the large columns the french fought in, while less
affective in terms of volume of fire or ability to encircle an
opponent, were far more defensible against cavalry attacks.
However, both of these elements, supply lines and formations are things
I think could be quite easily added to a military stratogy game such as
time of conflict, by basically setting the properties of each unit.
For instance, changing the formation of a unit could alter it's attack
or defense value against both other types of unit and other
formations, ---- which would also make (as in reality), information
about the enemy far more necessary. Obviously formation could be
changed reactively, but not during actual battle without a severe loss
of time and attack.
Then, supplies! in time of conflict supplies weren't an issue, and in
sound rts supplies were pretty static, simply build farms and farm
them, with no suggestion of how the food got from those farms to your
troops.
of course, castaways had a much more detailed supply chain, but
castaways was a far more individualized game with a different, none
military setting.
once again, supplies could be dictated upon unit creation or orders.
For instance, having a property such that the more food a unit took
them, the longer they could spend out on the map before returning to a
staging point, however, the disadvantage being that the more it
carried, the slower it's speed. Alternatively, units could be set to
forage, but at a cost of their attack (hungry soldiers don't fight as
well, and foraging is far less efficient at feeding troops than
carrying their own rations), and also the fact that once one area of
the map was foraged, it couldn't be foraged again for several turns.
this would make supply lines, depots and staging areas far more of a
concern, and mean that units such as cart trains would also have a
place in the game as well.
What are people's thoughts?
Beware the Grue!
Dark.
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