Hi, Kevin!
I hope you are wintering well. Here, we could use more snow and less cold.
As for your questions about how I would define the various gases you mentioned,
I wouldn't. I leave that to those with more spare time or with nothing better
to do than engage in some sort of mental masturbation.
I build gasifiers. Our gasifiers successfully convert woody materials, MSW,
livestock manure, agricultural waste, EFB, coal, CCA, D&C, seed oil processing
waste and many more feedstocks and they do it well! and cleanly. I would
probably become insane if I had to give each gas a nane and, besides, our
customers care more about results than nomenclature.
Our industry is deprived of its market share, perhaps because there are not
enough of us working to improve the process and the architecture. I don't know.
I do, however, know that I have to get back to work.
Respectfully,
Bill Klein
3i
-------- Original Message -----
From: Kevin
To: Discussion of biomass pyrolysis and gasification
Sent: Saturday, January 29, 2011 11:47 AM
Subject: Re: [Gasification] Syngas, why not just fix it?
Dear Bill
How would you define Wood Gas, and Producer Gas?
How would you define "Syngas"?
Is "Syn Gas the same as "Synthesis Gas?"
If there is a difference, could you please define each term, to eliminate
confusion?
Thank you.
Kevin Chisholm
----- Original Message -----
From: Bill Klein
To: doug.williams ; Discussion of biomass pyrolysis and gasification
Sent: Friday, January 28, 2011 8:48 PM
Subject: Re: [Gasification] Syngas, why not just fix it?
Well put, Doug
I would like to stick my oar into this ever muddier pond.
Diesel, kerosene, gasoline, petrol, producer gas, syngas, woodgas and a
rose .
We know what these are, but, it seems, some who are not too familiar with
the words would do well to learn what each is rather than trying to change
something of which they have limited knowledge.
Get over it and deal with reality!
East is east and west is west. Producer gas is well known by those of us
who spend their lives smelling it. I've made syngas. Like most things, it
doesn't smell like producer gas.
Still not convinced?
A rose, by any other name is still a rose!
Respectfully,
Bill Klein
3i
----- Original Message -----
From: doug.williams
To: Discussion of biomass pyrolysis and gasification
Sent: Friday, January 28, 2011 6:37 PM
Subject: Re: [Gasification] Syngas, why not just fix it?
Hi Pete and Colleagues,
Seeing as you ask, this is what can be offered:
> This topic sure has taken up a lot of time.
We can talk about multiple subjects at the same time on this forum, and
you select that which interests you the most. However, there are not many who
contribute enough to keep minds interested in the mundane issues like correct
use of terminology.
>Why not just fix it if y'all don't like it the way it is?
This forum is an interest group and has no mandate from any authorizing
body to set standards or definitions. We are also very International in our
location, and therefore subject to working within certain set standards, set by
our administrations.
> Earlier I suggested that the analysis of this mystery gas might fit
> into some numbering system, as is done with steel.
We make gas that already has set boundaries as to it's correct
identification, but to create a system based on numbers would require accurate
gas analysis for everyone involved. Many factors can affect the gas
volumes,etc, depending on the scales of gas production, and fuels used, plus
seasonal variations that play havoc with the same process.
> It seems to me that this group is the right one to do it.
> One could at least deal with the top half dozen components, couldn't
one?
Well, we certainly have plenty of knowledge, but we see only a fraction
of those belonging to this Forum contributing informed comment.
>
> Again, back to the steel analogy--- we don't have any problems talking
> about A36, 1018, W1, etc..
Having been defined by the steel industry, makes it easy for the steel
fabricators to use numbers. Shock horror if you aren't aware as an amateur
fabricator, and only think of iron,steel, tool steel, stainless steel, so not
everyone who talks about the subject, is on the same wave length. Like any
technology, you have to make the effort to learn about the differences, then be
more constructive in how you participate,
> Maybe, a letter for the top component?
> Maybe a 2 tier system,; one for those gases with N2 and one for those
> without?
Producer gas, and Syngas identify these two gases, how complicated is
that to understand?
> Maybe someone could at least tell me why this shouldn't be done now?
Quite simply, it has been done, but clearly some would rather ignore
correct definitions for reasoning of their own. The market place remains very
confused by how gasification is presented, and the EU took the initiative in
2008-9, to set guidelines that can be used by all involved, and be more
informed with gasification projects. It's was a huge job, involved many
institutions, and is only a beginning to bring some order into the
implementation of gasification. The work has to be seen as on-going, and maybe
we can ask Harrie Knoef of BTG to explain their progress, as I have current no
on-line reference.
Doug Williams,
Fluidyne.
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