No ruffeled feathers here. I am in no way thinking that any of the species that I keep will ever be released back into the wild. I just think that when you read this book, they talk about conservation of the genera, which I agree with. Then they talk about making hybids, which in no way helps to conserve these species in captivity. I do have to agree with Sven on one point, I think there has been
more success, when it comes to breeding, in the private sector over zoological institutions.
The other thing that I would like to bring up is the breeding of a "pure" locale for more money. Go get this book and read what I'm talking about. For what reason do you want to breed a larger more colorful gecko? If it's not for a profit, then please tell me what it's for!
PJ
From: Fred Wininger <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [gecko]New Rach book Date: Mon, 29 Sep 2003 16:10:35 -0700 (PDT)
Hi all,
This is indeed an interesting topic and one that has been touched on before. Unfortunately, I am going to have to disagree with Sven and PJ here, possibly ruffling a few feathers. What we do here in the gecko hobby is by no means scientific research. As much as we would like to deny it, what we do does not save wild populations, to the contrary it probably contributes more to their destruction. There are only a handful of species that have been bred with enough success and number to obliterate the removal of these species from the wild for the trade. Interestingly enough, these species are the cheaper animals that are now being bred for their interesting color morphs and locale crosses. Otherwise there are few species that are no longer "Wild caught", and lets not forget that they are being wild caught for HOBBYISTS and no one else. As far as I know, these geckos that we are "captively propagating" are not being released back into their habitats. Thus, mixing of local
es or
even subspecies will not effect wild populations. The only people it will affect are the hobbyists that are trying to keep the locales separate so they can sell them as different animals and thus make more money.
I love keeping herps as much as the next guy, but lets not kid ourselves, we are not the saviors of the rainforest. As much as deforestation and encroaching human populations destroy habitats, the only reason that gecko populations are hunted specifically is the hobbyist trade. Whole sub-populations of Uroplatus, Phelsuma, and yes even Rhacodactylus have likely been wiped out because some guy from Madagascar or New Caledonia figured out it would be easier to chop down a tree than to climb one in search of geckos to send to New Jersey or California.
I know we all try to have good intentions with the geckos we keep, but we also need to remember how non-native geckos got here and continue to be imported. It is not the mixing of subspecies that messes up populations, they are not being returned to the wild anyway...it is the removal of those populations in the first place.
Sorry for the soap box, I just don't think the people who are making crosses are the ones to fear. It is us who create the demand for the geckos in the first place.
Respectfully,
Fred Wininger
UPENN School of Vet Med V'05
Sven Vogler <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
Hi PJ!
Thumbs up! Exactly my opinion what you wrote. Since I started with the Internet I get a "closer look" to the things happening at design creation stations, misinterpreted as reptile breeders.
Come on folks! Let`s ruin the wild species as our ancestors did with wolf (hello poodle, shar pei, wiener dog, ...), prussian carp (hello goldfish, fantail, bubble-eye,...).
What about a jetblack knobtailed fantoed redeyed Eublepharis? Might bring a lot of money.
I always saw the herping-hobby as a private arm of scientific research. Helping the species to survive despite the human impacts in their original surroundings.
If you take a look at the breeding-statistics of the members of the DGHT you will notice that privates are more successful in breeding species than the zoos and institutes dedicated to this.
What happens if they start producing designer-pacmans,-balls,-leopards,-... instead of caring for species known to only a handful of people? Species will vanish even faster from this earth and make life poorer.
Greetings from Hamburg
Sven Vogler
----- Original Message ----- From: "PJ Willis"
Date: Sun, 28 Sep 2003 21:27:11 -0700 To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [gecko]New Rach book
> I know I may take some flack for this, but I have to disagree. While the
> photos in this book are very nice and some of the information is useful, I
> find the book to be more of a selling point for T-Rex foods! I find it funny
> that these keepers advocate the cross breeding of species to create a more
> colorful gecko? They talk about conservation of this genera, but then talk
> about trying to produce a hybrid of locales, which I assume is for profit?
> May people wonder why the herp community is not taken more seriously be
> zoological institutions, I think you need to look no further then something
> like this. Some of the most well known keepers ruining the genetic purity of
> a species to make something that is more attractive to the public? I find it
> disturbing, but that's only my oppinion, please feel free to disagree. I
> myself, will keep breding as pure of animals as I can. I guess you could
> compare it to the loss of many of the Eublepharis species that came in a few
> years back.
>
> PJ
>
>
> >From: Julie Bergman
> >Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> >To: Gecko List
> >Subject: [gecko]New Rach book
> >Date: Tue, 23 Sep 2003 12:46:28 -0700
> >
> >WOW! This book by de Vosjoli, Fast and Repashy looks to be a must have! The
> >photos and information are phenomenal.
> >
> >Julie B.
> >
> >
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