Hi.
I’m
relatively new to the hobby and haven’t discussed this before but I’d
still like to point out that most if not all of the Rhacodactylus species are
far more available as CB than as WC animals. At least in Europe.
Though
it may be true that for some of the experienced breeders who have a lot of
connections and have been in the hobby for a long time can and probably do get
hold of WC animals, for the average hobbyist WC animals are next to impossible
to get hold of.
This
I think is as it should be. I believe that large breeders need new blood in
order to expand the gene pool of the species. There are also strict export
quotas on the species in question in New Caledonia witch helps preserve the
species in it’s native Habitat.
In
Henkel & Seipp’s Rhacodactylus book it is also mentioned that deforestation,
mining and Fire ants are the real threat to some of the Rhacodactylus spp. so for
all we know some of the species may very well be extinct in a few decades?
I
like to try enhance the characteristics of my geckoes,
not for profit though, I have to travel atleast 120 miles to sell my animals
since herps are illegal where I live. I believe that we try to enhance the
characteristics of our animals to make them more pretty?
Hehe. That’s certainly another topic for discussion and I’m sure
I’m far too na�ve but I still can’t understand where the mixing of
subspecies fits in unless one tries to establish a new subspecies or “breed”
of leachianus?
Regards
obeligz
-----Opprinnelig melding-----
Fra: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] P�
vegne av Fred Wininger
Sendt: 30. september 2003 01:11
Til: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Emne: Re: [gecko]New Rach book
This is indeed an
interesting topic and one that has been touched on before. Unfortunately,
I am going to have to disagree with Sven and PJ here,
possibly ruffling a few feathers. What we do here in the gecko hobby is
by no means scientific research. As much as we would like to deny it,
what we do does not save wild populations, to the contrary it probably
contributes more to their destruction. There are
only a handful of species that have been bred with enough success and number to
obliterate the removal of these species from the wild for the trade.
Interestingly enough, these species are the cheaper animals that are now being
bred for their interesting color morphs and locale crosses. Otherwise
there are few species that are no longer "Wild caught", and lets not
forget that they are being wild caught for HOBBYISTS and no one
else. As far as I know, these geckos that we are "captively propagating"
are not being release d back into their habitats. Thus, mixing of locales
or even subspecies will not effect wild populations. The only people it
will affect are the hobbyists that are trying to keep the locales separate so
they can sell them as different animals and thus make more money.
I love
keeping herps as much as the next guy, but lets not kid ourselves, we are not
the saviors of the rainforest. As much as deforestation and encroaching
human populations destroy habitats, the only reason that gecko populations are
hunted specifically is the hobbyist trade. Whole sub-populations of
Uroplatus, Phelsuma, and yes even Rhacodactylus have likely been wiped out
because some guy from Madagascar or New Caledonia figured out it would be easier to chop down a tree than to climb one in search of
geckos to send to New Jersey or California.
I know we all try to have good intentions with the geckos we keep, but we also
need to remember how non-native geckos got here and continue to be
imported. It is not the mixing of subspecies that messes up populations,
they are not being returned to the wild anyway...it is
the removal of those populations in the first place.
Sorry for the soap box, I just don't think the people who are making crosses
are the ones to fear. It is us who create the demand for the geckos in
the first place.
UPENN School
of Vet Med V'05
Sven Vogler
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
Hi PJ!
Thumbs up! Exactly my opinion what you wrote. Since I started with the Internet
I get a "closer look" to the things happening at design creation
stations, misinterpreted as reptile breeders.
Come on folks! Let`s ruin the wild species as our ancestors did with wolf
(hello poodle, shar pei, wiener dog, ...), prussian carp (hello goldfish,
fantail, bubble-eye,...).
What about a jetblack knobtailed fantoed redeyed Eublepharis? Might bring a lot
of money.
I always saw the herping-hobby as a private arm of scientific research. Helping
the species to survive despite the human impacts in their original
surroundings.
If you take a look at the breeding-statistics of the members of the DGHT you
will notice that privates are more successful in breeding species than the zoos
and institutes dedicated to this.
What happens if they start producing designer-pacmans,-balls,-leopards,-...
instead of caring for species known to only a handful of people? Species will
vanish even faster from this earth and make life poorer.
Greetings from Hamburg
Sven Vogler
----- Original Message -----
From: "PJ Willis"
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>Date: Sun, 28 Sep 2003 21:27:11 -0700
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: [gecko]New Rach book
> I know I may take some flack for this, but I have to disagree. While the
> photos in this book are very nice and some of the information is useful, I
> find the book to be more of a selling point for
T-Rex foods! I find it funny
> that these keepers advocate the cross breeding of species to create a more
> colorful gecko? They talk about conservation of this genera, but then talk
> about trying to produce a hybrid of locales, which I assume is for profit?
> May people wonder why the herp community is not taken more
ser iously be
> zoological institutions, I think you need to look no further then
something
> like this. Some of the most well known keepers ruining the genetic purity
of
> a species to make something that is more
attractive to the public? I find it
> disturbing, but that's only my oppinion, please feel free to disagree. I
> myself, will keep breding as pure of animals as I can. I guess you could
> compare it to the loss of many of the Eublepharis species that came in a
few
> years back.
>
> PJ
>
>
> >From: Julie Bergman
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>> >Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> >To: Gecko List
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>> >Subject: [gecko]New Rach book
> >Date: Tue, 23 Sep 2003 12:46:28 -0700
> >
> >WOW! This book by de Vosjoli, Fast and Repashy looks to be a must have! The
> >photos and information are phenomenal.
> >
> > Julie B.
> >
> >
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