PJ,
All good points. I definitely agree, the private hobbysit sector seems to have surpassed zoos with regard to herp breeding and captive husbandry...they are OUR animals after all.
Fred
PJ Willis <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
PJ Willis <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
Fred,
No ruffeled feathers here. I am in no way thinking that any of the
species that I keep will ever be released back into the wild. I just think
that when you read this book, they talk about conservation of the genera,
which I agree with. Then they talk about making hybids, which in no way
helps to conserve these species in captivity. I do have to agree with Sven
on one point, I think there has been
more success, when it comes to breeding, in the private sector over
zoological institutions.
The other thing that I would like to bring up is the breeding of a
"pure" locale for more money. Go get this book and read what I'm talking
about. For what reason do you want to breed a larger more colorful gecko? If
it's not for a profit, then please tell me what it's for!
PJ
>From: Fred Wininger <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>Subject: Re: [gecko]New Rach book
>Date: Mon, 29 Sep 2003 16:10:35 -0700 (PDT)
>
>Hi all,
>This is indeed an interesting topic and one that has been touched on
>before. Unfortunately, I am going to have to disagree with Sven and PJ
>here, possibly ruffling a few feathers. What we do here in the gecko hobby
>is by no means scientific research. As much as we would like to deny it,
>what we do does not save wild populations, to the contrary it probably
>contributes more to their destruction. There are only a handful of species
>that have been bred with enough success and number to obliterate the
>removal of these species from the wild for the trade. Interestingly
>enough, these species are the cheaper animals that are now being bred for
>their interesting color morphs and locale crosses. O therwise there are few
>species that are no longer "Wild caught", and lets not forget that they are
>being wild caught for HOBBYISTS and no one else. As far as I know, these
>geckos that we are "captively propagating" are not being released back into
>their habitats. Thus, mixing of local
> es or
> even subspecies will not effect wild populations. The only people it
>will affect are the hobbyists that are trying to keep the locales separate
>so they can sell them as different animals and thus make more money.
>I love keeping herps as much as the next guy, but lets not kid ourselves,
>we are not the saviors of the rainforest. As much as deforestation and
>encroaching human populations destroy habitats, the only reason that gecko
>populations are hunted specifically is the hobbyist trade. Whole
>sub-populations of Uroplatus, Phelsuma, and yes even Rhacodactylus have
>likely been wiped out bec ause some guy from Madagascar or New Caledonia
>figured out it would be easier to chop down a tree than to climb one in
>search of geckos to send to New Jersey or California.
>I know we all try to have good intentions with the geckos we keep, but we
>also need to remember how non-native geckos got here and continue to be
>imported. It is not the mixing of subspecies that messes up populations,
>they are not being returned to the wild anyway...it is the removal of those
>populations in the first place.
>Sorry for the soap box, I just don't think the people who are making
>crosses are the ones to fear. It is us who create the demand for the
>geckos in the first place.
>Respectfully,
>Fred Wininger
>UPENN School of Vet Med V'05
>Sven Vogler <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>wrote:
>Hi PJ!
>
>Thumbs up! Exactly my opinion what you wrote. Since I started with the
>Internet I get a "closer look" to the things happening at design creation
>stations, misinterpreted as reptile breeders.
>Come on folks! Let`s ruin the wild species as our ancestors did with wolf
>(hello poodle, shar pei, wiener dog, ...), prussian carp (hello goldfish,
>fantail, bubble-eye,...).
>What about a jetblack knobtailed fantoed redeyed Eublepharis? Might bring a
>lot of money.
>
>I always saw the herping-hobby as a private arm of scientific research.
>Helping the species to survive despite the human impacts in their original
>surroundings.
>If you take a look at the breeding-statistics of the members of the DGHT
>you will notice that privates are more successful in breeding species than
>the zoos and institutes dedicated to this.
>What happens if they start producing designer-pacmans,-balls,-leopards,-...
>instead of caring for species known to only a handful of people? Species
>will v anish even faster from this earth and make life poorer.
>
>Greetings from Hamburg
>
>Sven Vogler
>
>----- Original Message -----
>From: "PJ Willis"
>
>Date: Sun, 28 Sep 2003 21:27:11 -0700
>To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>Subject: Re: [gecko]New Rach book
>
> > I know I may take some flack for this, but I have to disagree. While the
> > photos in this book are very nice and some of the information is useful,
>I
> > find the book to be more of a selling point for T-Rex foods! I find it
>funny
> > that these keepers advocate the cross breeding of species to create a
>more
> > colorful gecko? They talk about conservation of this genera, but then
>talk
> > about trying to produce a hybrid of locales, which I assume is for
>profit?
> > May people wonder why the herp community is not taken more seriously be
> > zo ological institutions, I think you need to look no further then
>something
> > like this. Some of the most well known keepers ruining the genetic
>purity of
> > a species to make something that is more attractive to the public? I
>find it
> > disturbing, but that's only my oppinion, please feel free to disagree. I
> > myself, will keep breding as pure of animals as I can. I guess you could
> > compare it to the loss of many of the Eublepharis species that came in a
>few
> > years back.
> >
> > PJ
> >
> >
> > >From: Julie Bergman
> > >Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > >To: Gecko List
> > >Subject: [gecko]New Rach book
> > >Date: Tue, 23 Sep 2003 12:46:28 -0700
> > >
> > >WOW! This book by de Vosjoli, Fast and Repashy looks to be a must have!
>The
> > >photos and information are phenomenal.
> > >
> > >Julie B.
> > >
> > >
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