I appreciate your responses. I wasn't offended, especially not over geckos, lifes too short for that. Was just shocked that's all. But all is well, and I've been keeping these wonderful leos for 6yrs now, and agree that their health can be somewhat fragile sometimes. I've only had two sick leos in all this time, and after that experience and the knowledge i gained from herpers as well as vets, it has now lead me to own around two dozen very healthy leos.
To answer your question scubadug, i've done a ton of research on this species for as long as i've owned them, therefore no newbie here.
Anyways I appreciate what you guys do on this forum and encourage you to continue doing so.
Best of luck with all your herps, 'till next time,
-Sam
Subj: Re: [gecko]Cage Cleaning Solutions and Plant Fertilizer
Date: 1/27/2004 10:20:51 AM Pacific Standard Time
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Reply-to: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent from the Internet
Hi Sam,
I have to completely agree with what Doug said here. I am sorry you were offended. Please don't mistake our strong advocacy for proper sterilization procedures personally. There are lots of newbies on this list and it is important to give them the best information available. After all, this is what the GGA is all about, education for the betterment of gex.
After keeping herps for some time, you will find their health is not a static situation as Doug astutely pointed out. It is a constant battle to keep gex environments free of threating organisms. You can really never relax about this, and you can't send the second or third teams out to win the superbowl. ;)
Julie Bergman
GGA lifetime member
www.geckoranch.com
Doug Johnston wrote:
Sam...
First of all, please do not hold back your input. That is what this list is all about. Dialog always has two sides to it. My response was not intended to be aggressive, though I figured you'd take it that way. People who get corrected usually do! You are certainly welcome to your opinions, but I think if you did some very minimal web searching (what I did), you'd find what Julie and I said is absolutely correct. We responded like we did because we are always advocates for the animals above all else. Keep in mind that even healthy animals will shed parasites and their eggs. If you do not disinfect the cage adequately, they can reinfect the animals (at least those with a direct life cycle). Healthy animals can usually handle this, but introduce a stressor and the parasites can then bloom and you have a problem.
I guess I should stop now... you probably won't listen anyway!
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Hi Julie/Scubadug,
I've heard of quatricide, and it is readily available.
I guess when dealing with really sick herps then you guys may be right that something stronger would be needed. However I have a full collection of healthies on my hand, and the hydrogen peroxide is working great with me. The reason i mentioned hydrogen peroxide to the person that was inquiring about methods of cleaning tanks was because for regular cleaning for healthy leos this would be fine. If the person however asked for a disinfectant because she's got a really sick reptile then i would've left it up to others to recommend more powerful disinfectants that have worked for them. We all know that different parasites, bacteria etc. require different disinfectants, simply having one will not necessarily kill off everything.
No need to get nasty here, and hound people for their methods, or choices they prefer to disinfect their enclosures, what works for some may not work for others, simple as that.
Scubadug, I think you should relax, and try to get your point across in a much more calm fashion.
Wow, didn't know this place could get so aggressive........I'm gonna think twice before I put my two cents in next time.
Happy herping all
-Sam
Subj: Re: [gecko]Cage Cleaning Solutions and Plant Fertilizer
Date: 1/26/2004 10:39:30 AM Pacific Standard Time
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Reply-to: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent from the Internet
Hi Sam,
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Hi Julie,
I guess every vets got their own opinion, as two of my very well known vets here in Ontario have recommended hydrogen peroxide over the 10% bleach solution. They're who introduced me to it in the first place.
Man! That is not too good to hear as there is plenty of research to back up that hydrogen peroxide is a poor disinfectant. The vet I was consulting, an exceptional non-domestic vet, also mentioned that hydrogen peroxide was NOT federally approved as a disenfectant. That may not mean much in Canada. ;)
I myself really enjoy using it as a disinfectant, it's quick and easy and gets the job done. No heavy lifting of the tanks to the bath involved. :)
There are other alternatives to 10% bleach solution. Quarternary ammonia, or Quatricide (Quat, brand names vary), is a great spot cleaner and shown to be more effective than hydrogen peroxide. Quatricide is readily available, cost effective (depends on where you buy it, what brand name) easy to use and will kill more bugs than hydrogen peroxide. I would not want anyone here to use hydrogen peroxide when there are so many other better choices. I have only mentioned one. I know Bean Farm sells Novalsan for example. Maybe Pro Exotics has some research to back up their new product someone mentioned here. Knowing Chad Brown, owner of Pro Exotics, he would certainly not offer anything that was not shown to be effective and safe within herper standards.
To each their own i guess.
You mentioned, "gets the job done." If the job is not done as well as other products available, what does that mean to your geckos? Germs, viruses, parasites, bacteria are stuff we cannot see and we must rely on competent research to help us have confidence that the job is getting done for the health of our gex.
Julie Bergman
GGA lifetime member
www.geckoranch.com
Thanks for the info however, always welcomed :)
-Sam
Subj: Re: [gecko]Cage Cleaning Solutions and Plant Fertilizer
Date: 1/22/2004 11:58:37 AM Pacific Standard Time
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Reply-to: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent from the Internet
Sam, I just checked with a non-domestic vet I know about this and she said hydrogen peroxide was a "poor microbiocide overall compared to most others (chlorine, quaternary ammonias and other commonly used disinfectants)." Quatricide is a quaternary ammonia. She did say, however, that folks keeping aquatic terraria are using it to "reduce potential toxicity issues with other disinfectants (for example in amphibian terraria)." She thought the best thing out there was the 10% bleach solution. Just an FYI!
Julie B.
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Many people use 5 or 10% bleach/water solution to clean out their tanks, and love it.
For the past 7 months now, I however have been using hydrogen peroxide, and am so happy that I found out about it! It saves me loads of time, and it gets the job done with no problems! Seems that this disinfectant is catching a lot of herpers attention recently :)
All I do is spray, wait 30 seconds, and wipe dry!
-Sam
Subj: Re: [gecko]Cage Cleaning Solutions and Plant Fertilizer
Date: 1/2/2004 11:32:18 AM Pacific Standard Time
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Reply-to: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent from the Internet
That depends, are you doing a clean with the gex inside or a sterilization? For a quick spot clean with the gex inside (gex you cannot easily remove like Phelsuma) or a quick overall clean I use Quatricide (generic equivalent from Smart and Final). It is about $6 for a gallon of concentrate. This is the same stuff sold by the brand name reptile folks, just read the label, it is even the same concentrate.
For that complete sterilization nothing beats a 10% bleach to water solution. After that is all rinsed out then I got for the vinegar to get rid of the hard water spots.
Julie B.
Mark &Robyn Rivera wrote:
Was wondering what cage cleaning solution people are using out there? Also does anyone use Miracle Grow fertilizer on their tank plants and would that have any vapor that might be harmful to geckos?
--
Doug Johnston
http://pages.sbcglobal.net/scubadug
