totally! On Tue, Dec 30, 2014 at 8:04 PM, Sarah Stierch <[email protected]> wrote:
> Wikidata is the bommbbbbbbb!! > > :) > > On Tue, Dec 30, 2014 at 11:00 AM, Jane Darnell <[email protected]> wrote: > >> Sorry to read that, Sarah. But maybe you just need a new project! I must >> admit I make way more edits on Wikidata than anywhere else these days - I >> believe that is where I can make the most effective contribution. I can't >> resist writing articles on Wikipedia now and then though. >> >> On Tue, Dec 30, 2014 at 5:56 PM, Sarah Stierch <[email protected]> >> wrote: >> >>> Yeah..I don't edit as much as I used to on Wikipedia now. I am obsessed >>> with Wikidata and doing more work in Commons again (shocker). :) It's been >>> a while since i've even written an article. But, i do edit each day, just >>> little things, not as prolific as I once was. I'd gladly do it if I was a >>> Wikipedian in Residence again, I like having missions...and I'm burnt out >>> on writing about "women" on Wikipedia. And most of the major projects I've >>> started or been involved in have been completed to the point where I'm no >>> longer interested. >>> >>> It just wears me out. I feel like every place I step on Wikipedia could >>> lead to me getting harassed or called out on something or whatever..it's >>> like walking on egg shells. This coming from a person who helped lead the >>> fight in creating 'nice' culture on Wikipedia. People just can't let things >>> go, and it just thwarts the energy and passion I have towards editing >>> myself. >>> >>> But, i've had the pleasure of helping women around the world learn how >>> to edit, so I guess that whole idea of cloning myself sort of worked :) >>> >>> -Sarah >>> >>> -Sarah >>> >>> On Tue, Dec 30, 2014 at 8:27 AM, Carol Moore dc < >>> [email protected]> wrote: >>> >>>> Good points, Jane Part of a hostile editing environment is the >>>> "either they ignore you or they insult you" phenomena. I'm sure a lot of >>>> women do quit for just the reason Jane describes - being ignored. >>>> >>>> I got that quoted phrase from a woman complaining about it in some >>>> mainstream article a few years ago. That made a lot of my experiences in >>>> email finally comprehensible. I found if I came up with a good idea, I >>>> was ignored. If I said something a bit outrageous in conjunction with that >>>> idea, some people might actually note the idea and comment on it, among all >>>> the outraged guys complaining about whatever (unladylike?) comment I made >>>> in conjunction with it. >>>> >>>> By the time I came to Wikipedia I was aware of that behavior and trying >>>> to find new strategies to get appropriate attention. Of course, on >>>> Wikipedia one doesn't have to go out of one's way to get attention if one >>>> regularly practices correcting editors, reverting them, seeking third >>>> opinions or going to noticeboards, any of which some editors also consider >>>> outrageous - particularly if the editor is perceived as being a women. >>>> >>>> Of course, if the editors in a specific culture - as where Jane was >>>> editing - choose to ignore women even when they are disagreeing with them >>>> or, in their eyes, acting outrageous, then that observation would not hold. >>>> >>>> CM >>>> >>>> >>>> On 12/30/2014 10:21 AM, Jane Darnell wrote: >>>> >>>> Hmm. I stopped editing the Dutch Wikipedia because it just wasn't any >>>> fun anymore. I would never say I experienced barriers to entry or that >>>> there were barriers to continued participation. It is more that there was a >>>> continuous vacuum of silence that made participation feel like I was on an >>>> island all of the time. I was never invited to the discussion table on any >>>> specific subject, and if I stumbled across one, once there, my replies to >>>> statements were never answered directly, but indirectly in replies to >>>> others. I was never addressed personally and asked for an opinion. That >>>> doesn't happen regularly on Commons or the English Wikipedia either, but I >>>> feel much less on an island in bth of those projects and much more a part >>>> of a community. Any contribution I made to an ongoing discussion on the >>>> Dutch Wikipedia just stopped the discussion altogether or was simply >>>> ignored. I vaguely remember a few deletion discussions where my objections >>>> were brushed off with ridiculous arguments - so ridiculous that I wouldn't >>>> know what to reply in all seriousness. Of course I can't back this up with >>>> diffs and it is just a feeling, but it's because of the feeling that I >>>> stopped contributing. I guess I also got tired of always linking to >>>> redlinks in my area of interest - there are just more people working in my >>>> area of interest on the English Wikipedia, so that I feel I can lean more >>>> on the work of others. >>>> >>>> On Tue, Dec 30, 2014 at 4:03 PM, Carol Moore dc < >>>> [email protected]> wrote: >>>> >>>>> This point is so important I gave it its own subject line. Perhaps >>>>> this language can be worked into the statement of purpose of all the WMF >>>>> Gender gap projects... I also think Kerry should turn her whole excellent >>>>> statement into an essay for the WMF site and it should be linked from GGTF >>>>> main page. >>>>> >>>>> On 12/29/2014 4:07 PM, Kerry Raymond wrote: >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Does it matter? Believe me, a lot of people get really stuck at this >>>>> point and frame it as “well, if women don’t want to edit Wikipedia, does >>>>> it >>>>> really matter? It’s their choice, isn’t it?” This is something that really >>>>> needs to get reframed. Yes, of course, many women don’t Wikipedia because >>>>> they simply aren’t interested in doing so (ditto many men). But there are >>>>> barriers to entry and barriers to continued participation by women who are >>>>> interested in doing so compared to men. Try to reframe it “are women >>>>> equally able to edit Wikipedia” or “are there barriers to women editing?”. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> Gendergap mailing list >>>>> [email protected] >>>>> To manage your subscription preferences, including unsubscribing, >>>>> please visit: >>>>> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/gendergap >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> Gendergap mailing [email protected] >>>> To manage your subscription preferences, including unsubscribing, please >>>> visit:https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/gendergap >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> Gendergap mailing list >>>> [email protected] >>>> To manage your subscription preferences, including unsubscribing, >>>> please visit: >>>> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/gendergap >>>> >>> >>> >>> >>> -- >>> >>> Sarah Stierch >>> >>> ----- >>> >>> Diverse and engaging consulting for your organization. >>> >>> www.sarahstierch.com >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Gendergap mailing list >>> [email protected] >>> To manage your subscription preferences, including unsubscribing, please >>> visit: >>> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/gendergap >>> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Gendergap mailing list >> [email protected] >> To manage your subscription preferences, including unsubscribing, please >> visit: >> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/gendergap >> > > > > -- > > Sarah Stierch > > ----- > > Diverse and engaging consulting for your organization. > > www.sarahstierch.com > > _______________________________________________ > Gendergap mailing list > [email protected] > To manage your subscription preferences, including unsubscribing, please > visit: > https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/gendergap >
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