will hill wrote:
>Uhh, it is a University position. It would be kind of hard for them to NOT >hire one of their own graduates over someone else, no? > >A 4 year degree forces the victim to learn some basic communication and social >skills. The shear variety of subject matter helps on it's own. Being forced >to write reports that are subject to brutal peer and professor criticism >finishes the job. You can either express yourself or you fail. This is what >a four year degree really "says" about a person. They are willing to do as >they are told and can > Since when does a degree make someone willing to do what they are told? In my experience it goes the other way around. The person with the degree is cocky and thinks that he knows it all. I work with PhDs who know didly squat about computers and they try to tell a >20 year veteran of UNIX systems administration how to do his job. (Not me, but another admin for the group.) As far as the degree doing all that you claim, I have been pretty disillusioned now that I am attending LSU for the past few years. I cannot believe what they are calling an education now. It is an absolute joke (from what I have seen so far anyway). >report what happens when asked. The real world does not test a person the >same way. Given two people with the same level of technical competence, work >ethic and gusto, a person with that silly degree will have some advantage if >no candidate is known personally to the employer. The four year degree person >has proved their willingness to jump through senseless hoops and their ability >to write a report about it. This is valuable to some people, and they expect >the four year degree person to just as easily jump through any hoop they might >raise for them. > >The real trick is getting a 4 year degree and then getting yourself hired >despite your inexperience. Communication and social skills don't mean squat >when a company wants you to do something specific and you have never done it. >Many times, the position that provides good experience is closed to someone >with a four year degree. I've been told more than once that I'd have been >better off having spent some time in jail than in classrooms. I can assure >you that it is very difficult for a person without the required degree to be >taken seriously when a BS CS is called for. > The old chicken and egg problem. How do you get experience when they won't hire with no experience? > >The bottom line here is that we are in a hurting economy and it's bad for >everyone. If you think things are bad for EEs and CS people, try doing ME >after 30 years of manufacturing sector contraction. Intense competition is a >sign of desperation. > The problem is that we are shipping all of our manufacturing jobs overseas. The economy is not as bad as people are making it out to be. Sure, some markets are in a little down and of course CA sucks right now (their own fault, in my opinion), but for the most part the economy is OK. Part of the problem is that with our massive immigration (legal and illegal) we have to create >1 million new jobs a year JUST TO BREAK EVEN! Most people never think about that. And then there are all of the foreigners working here. I know of at least 8 jobs at LIGO in Livingston right now that are held by non US citizens. Canadians, Indians, Pakistanis, Hungarians, Russians, a guy from Ireland and another from Iceland. And that is just my local site. Project wide it is more like ~90. All of these are jobs paying 40k-120k a year with bennies. Now, why not give most or all of these to US citizens? Ticks me off. Especially the IT jobs. Things ain't exactly peaches and cream right now, but it ain't the end of the world either. I will get off my soap box now. :-) I think the real point is that by default the degree cannot hurt. Any degree... One of the best admins I know has an english lit degree. Go figure. Many people will not hire you without a degree even if you have beaucoup knowledge and experience AND you are the best person for the job. It might not be fair, but it is reality. I got very lucky. I was in the right place at the right time. Shannon
