Hi, The hard part about bringing in sub-projects is what the incubator focuses on: importing the code base into apache repositories getting the proper licensing in place for the code making releases with attention to vetting, voting, and staging working as a community
If we have suitable mentors for SQLLine it should be a quick trip through the incubator. And the DB project can adopt it at graduation, assuming that we can get the required consensus among the DB PMC members. Best regards, Craig > On Apr 1, 2022, at 4:50 PM, Julian Hyde <jhyde.apa...@gmail.com> wrote: > > Petri seems to be intended for prospective top-level projects, and for > projects that have no experience with the Apache Way. Neither of those are > true for SQLLine. I would like to hear Craig’s opinion in light of the > discovery that the bylaws allow the PMC to create sub-projects. > > >> On Apr 1, 2022, at 2:02 PM, Rick Hillegas <rick.hille...@gmail.com> wrote: >> >> I would be happy to call a vote on adding SQLLine as a DB sub-project. >> However, it seems to me that SQLLine must first pass the hurdles of some >> process which verifies its community support and IP. If Craig thinks that >> Petri is an adequate fast-track process, then that sounds like the next >> step. I'm happy to serve as DB sponsor--if such a thing is relevant to >> Petri--provided that this doesn't entail much work. >> >> On 4/1/22 1:10 PM, Julian Hyde wrote: >>> By the way, I know that DB is due to send a report for this month's ASF >>> Board meeting. I think it would be appropriate to mention that SQLLine has >>> approached the project with a view to joining as a sub-project. >>> >>> On 2022/04/01 20:07:18 Julian Hyde wrote: >>>> Thanks for raising this, Carl. I think the SQLLine project members would >>>> be interested in joining the DB project by this means. Given the members' >>>> experience with Apache this low-friction approach makes sense. >>>> >>>> Julian >>>> >>>> >>>> On 2022/03/30 19:25:11 Carl Steinbach wrote: >>>>> I'm a longtime user of both Sqlline and Apache DB, and think the former >>>>> is a natural fit for the latter. I am also an Apache and IPMC member, and >>>>> am eager to help in any way to get this process moving. >>>>> >>>>> I also wanted to note that the Apache DB Project Bylaws [1] specify the >>>>> following process for adding new subprojects: >>>>> >>>>> "PMC members may propose the creation of new subprojects. Creation of a >>>>> new subproject requires approval by 3/4 positve vote with a minimum of 3 >>>>> positive votes of the PMC. Abstaining PMC voters do not affect the >>>>> result. New code enters the DB project in accordance with ASF policy." >>>>> >>>>> Rick, is there any chance that you would be willing to propose the >>>>> creation of the Sqlline subproject? If so, I'm happy to write up the >>>>> proposal. >>>>> >>>>> Thanks. >>>>> >>>>> - Carl >>>>> >>>>> [1] https://db.apache.org/management.html >>>>> >>>>> On 2021/11/01 19:30:11 Julian Hyde wrote: >>>>>> Thanks, Craig. It seems that Petri would be a reasonable route for a >>>>>> mature project to become an Apache TLP. As would Incubator, in my >>>>>> opinion. >>>>>> >>>>>> However, my main questions concern DB. Is DB interested in sub-projects? >>>>>> If so, how would one enter DB? >>>>>> >>>>>> I think that SQLLine would be a good fit in DB, but other than Rick’s >>>>>> remarks, I’m not sensing much enthusiasm. >>>>>> >>>>>> Julian >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>> On Nov 1, 2021, at 11:54 AM, Craig Russell <apache....@gmail.com> wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>> The incubator is indeed how most projects come to Apache. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> But Petri is a group that is specifically designed to fast-track >>>>>>> projects that already know how communities work and are interested in >>>>>>> bringing their project to Apache. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> You can start by looking at the project web site >>>>>>> https://petri.apache.org and asking questions on the discuss@ mail list. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Warm regards, >>>>>>> Craig >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> On Nov 1, 2021, at 7:03 AM, Rick Hillegas <rick.hille...@gmail.com> >>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> I don't know of any fast-track process for circumventing the >>>>>>>> incubator. I have never incubated a project myself, so I would defer >>>>>>>> to Craig for guidance. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> On 11/1/21 12:13 AM, Julian Hyde wrote: >>>>>>>>> (Moving sqlline-dev to bcc.) >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Thanks for the reply, and the warm welcome, Rick. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> From what I can tell (if Derby, JDO, Cayenne are to be regarded as >>>>>>>>> typical), sub-projects enter the DB project via the Incubator, >>>>>>>>> sponsored by >>>>>>>>> DB, and after completing incubation graduate into DB. And then the >>>>>>>>> committers of the incubating sub-project become PMC members of DB. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> The Incubation process seems viable for us. I'm sure we can attract a >>>>>>>>> few >>>>>>>>> more regular contributors during incubation. The ‘teaching people the >>>>>>>>> Apache Way’ aspect of the Incubator seems unnecessary, given that >>>>>>>>> contributors to SQLLine have plenty of Apache experience; I took >>>>>>>>> Calcite >>>>>>>>> through incubation, and have mentored a half dozen projects through >>>>>>>>> incubation. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> By the way, does that process require a Board vote? Or is it just a >>>>>>>>> vote by >>>>>>>>> the DB PMC? >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Would IP clearance be an alternative way to enter? I guess if we went >>>>>>>>> that >>>>>>>>> route, we would still have to earn our commit bits & PMC membership >>>>>>>>> after >>>>>>>>> entering DB, and in the interim, that would make releases a bit >>>>>>>>> difficult. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Julian >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> On Oct 30, 2021, at 12:11 PM, Rick Hillegas <rick.hille...@gmail.com> >>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Hey Julian, >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> I think that the DB project would be a good home for SQLLine. DB >>>>>>>>> already >>>>>>>>> has a SQL REPL tool called ij, which can be deployed against any JDBC >>>>>>>>> database. The ij REPL tool is part of the Derby toolset: >>>>>>>>> https://db.apache.org/derby/docs/10.15/tools/ctoolsij34525.html There >>>>>>>>> could >>>>>>>>> be some interesting cross-pollination between SQLLine and ij. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Craig Russell hangs out at the DB project. He has a wealth of >>>>>>>>> experience >>>>>>>>> incubating projects and can probably help guide you through the >>>>>>>>> process. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> You probably already know much more about the Apache incubator than I >>>>>>>>> do, >>>>>>>>> given your stewardship of Calcite. At first blush, it sounds as >>>>>>>>> though you >>>>>>>>> need to sort out some IP issues and attract a couple more active >>>>>>>>> contributors in order to pass the incubator hurdles. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> I don't know what you need from DB at this point. Maybe Craig can >>>>>>>>> weigh in. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Welcome and a big +1 to folding SQLLine into Apache DB. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Cheers, >>>>>>>>> -Rick >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> On 10/28/21 8:49 PM, Julian Hyde wrote: >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Is the DB project interested in adding sub-projects? And if so, what >>>>>>>>> are the criteria for acceptance, and what is the process? >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> SQLLine [1] is an open-source project that provides a command-line >>>>>>>>> shell for any JDBC data source. It is widely used, including in Apache >>>>>>>>> projects such as Drill and Calcite, and even more widely forked (e.g. >>>>>>>>> Hive’s Beeline). The project was founded in around 2002 [2] and around >>>>>>>>> 2012 I adopted it, moved it to GitHub, and started making releases >>>>>>>>> again [3]. We have two regular contributors (myself and Sergey >>>>>>>>> Nuyanzin) and several occasional contributors, and make one or two >>>>>>>>> releases per year. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> In the SQLLine project, we have recently started a conversation about >>>>>>>>> governance, branding and IP ownership. Based on its GitHub URL, >>>>>>>>> people tend to assume that it is a single-developer project, and that >>>>>>>>> perception may hurt adoption and participation. We have been moving >>>>>>>>> towards an ASF-style governance model based on a PMC and committers, >>>>>>>>> but we are just short of critical mass. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> We think that SQLLine might be a good fit for the DB project. As a >>>>>>>>> Java-based tool for interacting with databases it fits the mission >>>>>>>>> perfectly; several of us are active in ASF projects and therefore know >>>>>>>>> how things work in Apache. If accepted, we could contribute to the >>>>>>>>> running of the DB project (voting on other sub-projects’ releases, for >>>>>>>>> example). >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Please let us know whether you think it would be a good fit for our >>>>>>>>> projects. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Julian >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> [1] https://github.com/julianhyde/sqlline >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> [2] https://sourceforge.net/projects/sqlline/files/sqlline/ >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> [3] https://github.com/julianhyde/sqlline/blob/master/HISTORY.md >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>> Craig L Russell >>>>>>> c...@apache.org >>>>>>> >>>>>> >> > Craig L Russell c...@apache.org
