I've got a laundry list! The entries at http://www.jsoftware.com/jwiki/System/Interpreter/Requests http://www.jsoftware.com/jwiki/System/Interpreter/Requests07 http://www.jsoftware.com/jwiki/System/Interpreter/Requests06 http://www.jsoftware.com/jwiki/System/Interpreter/Requests05
are just the beginning. (I stopped adding them after it became clear they weren't going to be implemented or even considered). But more generally I am I interested in cultivating a culture of progress in the language. I want to see a living, breathing language, not one that has ossified. Nothing survives without change. I think a good test case for the viability of the OpenJ project, and an indication of renewed progress in the language, would be if someone could check out the source, modify it to admit Unicode identifiers, build it, pass the existing tests, add new ones, and check the whole thing back in. All using just the publicly available resources (including the currently-nonexistent open source build system). * It's a small thing, but I'd be really excited to see it. I think our intelligent and highly engaged little community would take the language in creative new directions from there. -Dan * For one thing, Unicode identifiers would allow us to experiment with prospective new primitives, without even having to modify the source. Please excuse typos; composed on a handheld device. On Mar 7, 2013, at 9:46 AM, Tom Szczesny <[email protected]> wrote: > [email protected] wrote: >> So, I would be much more interested in seeing developments in the core > language than in peripherals like the IDE. > > What developments in the core language are you looking for? > > On Thu, Mar 7, 2013 at 9:31 AM, Dan Bron <[email protected]> wrote: > >> I think the idea of a modern J IDE delivered as a web app is really cool >> and would help promote the language. And I like the idea of using >> off-the-shelf components which are field-tested and supported by a broader >> community, rather than inventing our very own wheel. >> >> But I also agree that a lot of attention has gone into the development >> environment, rather than our real treasure: the language! Though we've >> incremented the version number, our actual interest, the programming >> language, hasn't changed in years. >> >> Like the old Folger's coffee commercials, I bet if I secretly switched >> your J8 DLL with a J5 DLL, you'd never notice the difference. In fact, >> unless you use the dyad ;: , I bet I could put J4 in there! >> >> Though our language, as it stands, is a wonderful treasure, and a >> testament to Ken's foresight and Roger's effort, there is no such thing as >> perfect, or even completed, software. So, I would be much more interested >> in seeing developments in the core language than in peripherals like the >> IDE. >> >> And, now that we have the source, we have the opportunity to see that kind >> of development. What we are sorely lacking is the infrastructure to build >> it, and run the test suite, so that we can make changes with confidence. >> JSoftware is not going to supply one, and the current OpenJ project is >> stalled for that. We can't even play with the exciting new toys Pepe >> announced last week (though Thomas and Pepe are willing to take the time to >> build and supply a custom binary, thankfully). >> >> I don't know what to suggest as a remedy. I personally don't have the >> expertise to create a build system for J. I'm barely competent enough in C >> to muddle through the source if someone provided a 1-click build/test >> suite. I just know we need one. >> >> -Dan >> >> >> Please excuse typos; composed on a handheld device. >> >> On Mar 7, 2013, at 9:09 AM, Murray Eisenberg <[email protected]> >> wrote: >> >>> >>> On 7 Mar 2013 12:46:24 +0100, Martin Saurer <[email protected]> >> wrote: >>>> >>>> To everybody who wants to check out an experimental new browser based J >> IDE. >>>> >>>> http://www.jsoftware.com/jwiki/Scripts/qjide >>>> >>>> ...Your feedback will be highly appreciated.. . . >>> >>> The curse of programming is developers of programming languages! >>> >>> While I'm not complaining in particular about this one effort, surely >> it's more important to get the major development efforts now underway -- >> jhs and jqt -- working fully and robustly, for all platforms and to >> encompass all the usual things that j602, and earlier versions, allowed, >> including documentation, labs, graphics, demos, etc. Rather than leave >> things in the half-implemented state we seem to be in right now. >>> >>> --- >>> Murray Eisenberg >> [email protected] >>> Mathematics & Statistics Dept. >>> Lederle Graduate Research Tower phone 413 549-1020 (H) >>> University of Massachusetts 413 545-2838(W) >>> 710 North Pleasant Street fax 413 545-1801 >>> Amherst, MA 01003-9305 >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------- >>> For information about J forums see http://www.jsoftware.com/forums.htm >> ---------------------------------------------------------------------- >> For information about J forums see http://www.jsoftware.com/forums.htm > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > For information about J forums see http://www.jsoftware.com/forums.htm ---------------------------------------------------------------------- For information about J forums see http://www.jsoftware.com/forums.htm
