Generally the first named option is considered the best. I think that under normal circumstances the current sequential vote ordering is best, so I suggest reversing the order of the options…
> The PPMC vote and the Incubator PMC vote MAY be conducted sequentially or, at the Podling's discretion concurrently,. or even > The PPMC vote and the Incubator PMC vote MAY be conducted sequentially > (preferred) or, at the Podling's discretion concurrently,. since sometimes the effect of “MAY” might be considered to emphasize the second option. David Jencks > On Sep 3, 2026, at 8:26 AM, tison <[email protected]> wrote: > > Hi JB, > >> As a separate discussion, maybe we could consider doing the release >> directly in both general incubator and podling dev mailing list (it >> would be closer to what a project does post graduation). > > Thanks for your suggestion! > > My initial concern with sending a single release vote to both mailing lists > was that it might make the tally ambiguous. When I think about it again, > however, I no longer consider this a significant problem. > > Voters could indicate whether they are voting as a PPMC member, as an IPMC > member with a binding vote, or in both capacities. This would be similar to > the current practice of suggesting binding voters identify their status and > Apache ID. The Release Manager would simply need to record the PPMC > endorsement and the binding IPMC approval separately. > > The wording I have proposed for the Incubator release policy is compatible > with this practice. It defines the release vote to take place on both the > podling dev list and the Incubator general list, concurrently or > sequentially, and requires both voting thresholds to be satisfied, but it > does not prescribe how the discussion must be threaded. A single vote > thread sent to both lists would therefore be compatible with the proposed > wording and, as you noted, would be closer to the process used after > graduation. > > If you find better wording, feel free to send a patch. > > Best, > tison. > > > Dave Fisher <[email protected]> 于2026年9月3日周四 22:45写道： > >> Running concurrent votes will require Tooling to make changes to make >> changes to ATR. >> >> In ATR we could handle the logistics of a VOTE on two lists at once >> (rather than sequential votes) >> >> In this case the truly binding votes will belong to IPMC members who will >> need to cast them using ATR’s Vote page after logging in with MFA. Each >> VOTE thread will get votes as they are cast. >> >> ATR provides many of the standard checks. >> >> I support this change to the IPMC’s guidelines. >> >> Best, >> Dave >> >>> On Sep 3, 2026, at 7:13 AM, Jean-Baptiste Onofré <[email protected]> >> wrote: >>> >>> Hi Tison >>> >>> Technically, what matters is the IPMC vote (as you mentioned). The >>> "pre-vote" in the podling should happen before, but could be >>> "concurrent". I think your update is good. >>> >>> As a separate discussion, maybe we could consider doing the release >>> directly in both general incubator and podling dev mailing list (it >>> would be closer to what a project does post graduation). >>> >>> Regards >>> JB >>> >>> On Thu, Sep 3, 2026 at 6:18 AM tison <[email protected]> wrote: >>>> >>>> Hi, >>>> >>>> I opened a PR to modify the release guidelines [^1] under the Incubator >> [1]. >>>> >>>> [1] https://github.com/apache/incubator/pull/145 >>>> >>>> Briefly, I wrote: >>>> >>>>> During incubation, PPMC members learn how to govern an ASF project. A >>>> PPMC operates like a PMC but reports to the Incubator PMC rather than to >>>> the ASF Board. The PPMC release vote ensures that the Podling community >>>> participates in producing and reviewing ASF releases. Because the PPMC >>>> cannot make formal decisions on behalf of the ASF, the Incubator PMC >>>> provides the binding approval required for a Podling release to become >> an >>>> ASF release. >>>>> >>>>> The PPMC vote and the Incubator PMC vote MAY be conducted concurrently >>>> or, at the Podling's discretion, sequentially. The timing and conduct of >>>> the votes MUST follow the applicable requirements of the Apache Voting >>>> Process and the ASF Release Policy. >>>>> >>>>> The proposed release is approved only when both of the following >>>> requirements have been satisfied: >>>>> >>>>> - At least three PPMC members have voted +1, and there are more +1 than >>>> -1 votes from PPMC members. >>>>> - At least three Incubator PMC members have cast binding +1 votes, and >>>> there are more binding +1 than binding -1 votes. >>>>> >>>>> Only votes from Incubator PMC members are binding for the purpose of >> ASF >>>> release approval. The PPMC vote is a separate incubation requirement >>>> intended to ensure that the Podling community participates in the >> release >>>> process. >>>> >>>> This continues the discussion at [2]. And I noticed some historical >>>> discussions about the interaction between IPMC and PPMCs around >> releases. >>>> >>>> [2] https://lists.apache.org/thread/j0008npmljw3j6ckko6o9tcrttgmgo1n >>>> >>>> Feel free to drop your comments and see if we should make any changes >> here. >>>> >>>> Best, >>>> tison. >>>> >>>> [^1] Basically, the Incubator does not define Release Policies. Legal >> and >>>> Infra do [3][4]. The IPMC formally conducts Podling's releases. Within >> the >>>> Incubator, we define guidelines to help the PPMC learn how to run an ASF >>>> project. >>>> >>>> [3] https://www.apache.org/legal/release-policy.html >>>> [4] https://infra.apache.org/policies.html >>> >>> --------------------------------------------------------------------- >>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: [email protected] >>> For additional commands, e-mail: [email protected] >>> >> >> >> --------------------------------------------------------------------- >> To unsubscribe, e-mail: [email protected] >> For additional commands, e-mail: [email protected] >> >> --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: [email protected] For additional commands, e-mail: [email protected]
