On Tue, 2002-02-05 at 11:24, Stefano Mazzocchi wrote: > Jon Scott Stevens wrote: > > > > on 2/4/02 1:58 PM, "Kevin A. Burton" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > > > I created the java-is-dead mailing list to address these issues. > > > > > > Note that this mailing list is a place to help fix things. The java-is-dead > > > mailing list is for people who love Java but are *very* concerned. > > > > The only people who can fix these things is Sun. This mailing list sounds > > like a black hole and these types of politics usually don't work against Sun > > (neither do online polls)... > > > > The way to get Sun's attention is to corner them into a hole and then pound > > on their head for a few years. Then, if you are lucky, you might get them to > > concede on an issue or two so that only you will be happy. > > In case you didn't notice, Sun might go out of business as soon as a > couple of years: if even Oracle says that bigiron is dead, Google and > yahoo run on huge though inexpensive clusters of pc clones, Dual G4 > machines are starting to beat the pants out of Sun boxes and run > unix.... where the hell is Sun going to earn its money from? > > yep, you guessed it right: Java. >
unlikely, that's a difficult transition to make. Its easier to become the next Borland than a cross-platform-microsoft-like-palm-like-hybrid-thing. Java doesn't offer sun much of a business plan. > They dropped the ball for java on the desktop: sun management decided > that it will never happen: there will be no Java version of StarOffice. > > So they want to earn money on the other two sides: > > big -> enterprise (J2EE) possible. They're going about it the wrong way (still). > small -> embedded (J2ME) > pipe dream. If embedded resources grow substantially (to where embedded means a system about as capable as my desktop), Bill G. and the gang win. If it stays small, Palm and K&R win. Sun has to bet on something in between or start making Java native chips again.. Its a pipe dream of a business plan. > why? simple: these are the things that pay off and these are the things > that go along better with Sun core business: which is hardware (both big > fat machines and silicon chips). > > Now: is Sun going to change this because Mr. Burtonator cries on his own > mail list? yeah, sure. > > Unless he has a few 10 billion dollars to invest in Sun to open up java. > > Sun can't start selling JDK's, otherwise people will switch to .NET (or > OSS clones of it, see Ximian MONO), but it sure can stop improve on it > (after 1.4 is out) and give away for free *normal* java implementations > and sell better/faster/more-scalable JVMs (which is what M$ will be > doing with .NET) > > You can be sure Sun has a lot to learn from M$ on the marketing-software > side of things. > > Yep, people, Java is turning into legacy for most corporations: they'd > rather spend some thousand dollars in new software (which will run on > sparc only, of course) than spend millions in retraining people, porting > software to .NET and blah blah blah. > perhaps. > Where does OSS stand? We have been *used* to make java solid. > probably (Sun = Corporation, Corporations operate in their own interests and not for the public good -- OSS served and possibly serves Sun's interests, if that changes so does Sun). > Now things are changed: they think they don't need us anymore because > Java is a commercial reality. That's the truth and you'd better learn it > fast. > > My position: give me a solid (possibly GPL-ed) CLI implementation, a > Java2C# porting tool, a BSD-licensed library of .NET classes and > java-cloning classes and I say let's kiss java good bye. > Think long and hard before you jump on this bandwagon my friend. If maintaining cross-platform compatibility with the .NET version is an objective for Mono then it will fail. The 3000 lb gorilla will never loose control of its illegitimate child. Regarding C#. I still think I'd rather learn "D" www.digitalmars.com/d If mono branches from .NET one starts asking why start with what I'm sure has baggage from the Microsoft platform in the first place. > Interesting enough, this is where Ximian is leading. > > Or we wait for another mozilla-like miracle. > > Anyway people: be ready to jump off the train, we are approaching the > cliff at full speed. > Agreed. Sun is self-immolating and fast. I really do not see them surviving the decade, and I'm skeptical about their survival beyond year 6 or 7 at least in their present form. I'm really not sure what skillsets I should pick up from here. I'm considering not being a programmer at all anymore (professionally) and moving more toward the administrative side of things (again I'd never give up coding for fun). Seems a safer bet now that we're moving into what I predict will be a decade of fad languages, etc. -Andy > -- > Stefano Mazzocchi One must still have chaos in oneself to be > able to give birth to a dancing star. > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Friedrich Nietzsche > -------------------------------------------------------------------- > > > -- > To unsubscribe, e-mail: <mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > For additional commands, e-mail: <mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > -- www.superlinksoftware.com www.sourceforge.net/projects/poi - port of Excel format to java http://developer.java.sun.com/developer/bugParade/bugs/4487555.html - fix java generics! The avalanche has already started. It is too late for the pebbles to vote. -Ambassador Kosh -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: <mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]> For additional commands, e-mail: <mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
