You are saying that long-frame rationing doesn't happen sometimes. I say it always does. Let's try to resolve this.
You give the example 2 3 4 5 4 3 -. 2 3 . But, as you have said, the frame for each operand is empty. (this is another way of saying that the verb is applied to its operands in their entirety). There is no frame that is longer than the other, so there is nothing to repeat. So long-frame rationing is performed, it just doesn't do anything. Right? Some verbs can operate on operands of dissimilar shapes. , is an example. To find out what , does AFTER all the frame and replication stuff happens, you have to know what , does on its operands. You find that by reading the Dictionary. For verbs of infinite rank, like , and -. , the rules for agreement and replication end up by saying that the verb operates on each operand in toto. But that's not an exception to the rules - it's a consequence of the rules when the verb has infinite rank. There are no exceptions to these rules. Henry Rich > -----Original Message----- > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Terrence Brannon > Sent: Sunday, April 22, 2007 5:50 PM > To: General forum > Subject: Re: [Jgeneral] long-frame rationing when the shapes > are not equal > > It is a property of the verb ',' within J, not J itself. If you read > this description of execution: > > <QUOTE> > The longer-frame operand (the right one) is broken up into operand > 0-cells, each being paired with a copy of the shorter-frame operand > cell > </QUOTE> > > which is given several times, there is no why here... and my > assumption up to now was that J does this for all verbs... if the > description had stated that it was a property of ',' to make such a > long-frame rationing, then I would not have developed the > mis-understanding of thinking that long-frame rationing was an > absolute property of how J applied verbs to nouns but rather a > property conditional to how a J verb applied itself to nouns. > > On 4/22/07, Henry Rich <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > It IS a property of J. In your example, both frames are empty. > > There is no frame that is longer than the other, so there's > > nothing to repeat. > > > > It's like > > > > 'abc' , 'defg' > > > > The rank of , is infinite, so there is no frame. You have to go to > > the definition of , to see what it does with its operands. > > > > Henry Rich > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of > Terrence Brannon > > > Sent: Sunday, April 22, 2007 5:38 PM > > > To: General forum > > > Subject: Re: [Jgeneral] long-frame rationing when the shapes > > > are not equal > > > > > > Well in that case, Henry, "J for C" needs to state that long-frame > > > rationing is not a property of J, but of particular verbs > of j... I > > > had put it in my dyad processing worksheet as an always, > when it is > > > not. > > > > > > The whole dyad section of "J for C" had me thinking it was a > > > property of J. > > > > > > For example, take: > > > http://www.jsoftware.com/help/jforc/loopless_code_i_verbs_have > > > _r.htm#_Toc141157994 > > > > > > but also the case here: > > > 'abc' ,"_ 0 'defg' > > > > > > > > > > > > On 4/22/07, Henry Rich <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > > You have it right: there's only 1 cell for each operand, so > > > > they're paired. Now you have to consult the Dictionary so > > > > see what the -. verb will do with its operands. You see > > > > that it removes items of x that appear in y. So it removes > > > > the 2 and the 4s. > > > > > > > > Henry Rich > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > > > [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of > > > Terrence Brannon > > > > > Sent: Sunday, April 22, 2007 5:19 PM > > > > > To: General forum > > > > > Subject: [Jgeneral] long-frame rationing when the shapes > > > are not equal > > > > > > > > > > "long-frame rationing" is my term for what happens when > > > the noun with > > > > > the larger frame has to broken up into n-cells to > pair up with the > > > > > noun with the smaller frame. > > > > > > > > > > It is demonstrated here: > > > > > http://www.jsoftware.com/help/jforc/loopless_code_i_verbs_have > > > > > _r.htm#_Toc141157994 > > > > > > > > > > For the example: > > > > > 100 200 + i. 2 3 > > > > > > > > > > we see long-frame rationing occur when Henry says <QUOTE>The > > > > > longer-frame operand (the right one) is broken up into operand > > > > > 0-cells, each being paired with a copy of the > > > shorter-frame operand > > > > > cell. Each paired _1-cell becomes a row of paired operand > > > > > cells:</QUOTE> > > > > > > > > > > so in my solution of 1 2 3 4 5 4 3 -. 2 4 > > > > > I am at the long-frame rationing step where the frames > > > are the same > > > > > length, but I cannot pair them 1 for 1 because their shape is > > > > > different: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Write out the entire expression: 1 2 3 4 5 4 3 -. 2 4 > > > > > Expand the verb rank(*1): -. b. 0 > > > > > 0 _ _ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Rank Calculation: > > > > > ---------------- > > > > > left-noun-rank: 1 > right-noun-rank: 1 > > > > > left-verb-rank: _ > right-verb-rank: _ > > > > > lesser left rank, lr = 1 lesser right > rank, rr = 1 > > > > > > > > > > The verb will be applied to 1-cells of the left operand > > > > > and to 1-cells of the right operand. > > > > > > > > > > left-noun-shape: 7 right-noun-shape: 2 > > > > > > > > > > Frame Calulation(*2): > > > > > -------------------- > > > > > left-frame: lf = empty > > > right-frame: rf = empty > > > > > > > > > > common frame: cf = empty > > > > > length of this common frame: rcf = 0 > > > > > -rcf = (_0) > > > > > > > > > > Operand Pairing: > > > > > --------------- > > > > > 1. Pair by common frame consisting of (-rcf)-cells: > > > > > > > > > > [1 2 3 4 5 4 3][2 4] > > > > > > > > > > 2. Pair by long-frame rationing. If the frames are the > > > same length, > > > > > then you simply pair them 1 by 1. > > > > > > > > > > *** HELP NEEDED HERE *** > > > > > > > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > > > > For information about J forums see > > > > > http://www.jsoftware.com/forums.htm > > > > > > > > > > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > > > For information about J forums see > > > http://www.jsoftware.com/forums.htm > > > > > > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > > For information about J forums see > > > http://www.jsoftware.com/forums.htm > > > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > For information about J forums see > http://www.jsoftware.com/forums.htm > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > For information about J forums see > http://www.jsoftware.com/forums.htm ---------------------------------------------------------------------- For information about J forums see http://www.jsoftware.com/forums.htm
