Devon McCormick wrote: > In any case, the issue of how cryptic a language appears is usually > raised by people unfamiliar with it, not with native speakers.
To add to this, as anyone who has learned any spoken/written languages beyond their native language can testify, it's not always the language itself that often presents the challenges to understanding. Rather, it's the *idioms* and idiomatic constructions that "native" speakers understand but "newcomers" don't. (Working in a library that has a strong ESL literacy program, we have to have dictionaries of English idioms so that ESL students can learn what these "everyday"--at least, to us--things mean.) Idioms enrich language and may even bring efficiency to transmitting ideas. However, when the purpose of a statement is understandability (especially for "non-natives", including beginners), "idiom-less" speaking and writing should be the goal. It all depends on the purpose: code written and shared for learning* purposes needs to be as clear and understandable as possible, following the basic constructions of the language (sort of like the difference between newspaper writing and great literature); but code being shared to demonstrate alternate approaches, efficiencies, elegance, etc., can be as abstruse as necessary to accomplish the goal. (As a beginner, I would hope that, in the latter case, a lengthier, nonterse "English" explanation would also be included to highlight the particular efficiency, elegance, or whatever.) * By "learning", I'm here referring to the initial learning of the basic and intermediate aspects of a language. Of course, one can "learn" much more advanced language aspects, too, via the presentation of new approaches and examples at a high level. I'm not against that by any means--it's great and gives me something to aspire to! Just give some clues to those of us at lesser levels of understanding. Thanks! Harvey ---------------------------------------------------------------------- For information about J forums see http://www.jsoftware.com/forums.htm
