What little chance I have to play with J7 I play with both interfaces. I suspect that if I develop applications for distribution I would use JGTK for development and JHS for final testing and distribution. And I would go to some trouble to make the application work under both. I have never liked ESC terminating J. It's too easy on my keyboard to bump when I press F1 for help. If ESC did not terminate JGTK I would add definitions to JGTK to match those in JHS while leaving those set in JGTK as well.
I know that I can go into the scripts for JGTK and remove pressing ESC to exit J. I probably will. On Tue, Feb 8, 2011 at 7:55 AM, bill lam <[email protected]> wrote: > IMO jhs and jgtk are two completely different interfaces, it will more > important that shortcut key are natural and comfortable in each interface, > rather than tie them together just for the sake of consistency. > > I guess users will choose one among jconsole/jhs/jgtk as their primary > interface, > so the problem arising from constantly switch between these interfaces is > not > a big issue. ymmv. > > Втр, 08 Фев 2011, Don Guinn писал(а): > > The JHS version does not exit on pressing ESC. Neither does jconsole. In > > fact, in JHS ESC is used extensively to support keystrokes lost when > running > > under a browser. I think it is more important to have consistency between > > the J7 interfaces than with previous versions of J. Supporting JHS > > keystrokes in JGTK should make it easier for one to move between the J7 > > interfaces. > > > > On Tue, Feb 8, 2011 at 5:02 AM, chris burke <[email protected]> > wrote: > > > > > The Esc behaviour has always been supported in J, and was common at > > > one time in Windows apps, e.g. notepad2. > > > > > > I suggest that: > > > > > > ConfirmClose be removed. Whichever way the J session is closed using > > > the Gui, there would be prompts only if there are unsaved changes in > > > the editor. > > > > > > A new config option EscClose (default 0) allows Esc to close J if > enabled. > > > > > > On Tue, Feb 8, 2011 at 10:50 AM, Tikkanz <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > If Esc no longer closed the Term (or Edit) window then I'd be more > > > > comfortable with having the default ConfirmClose setting set to 0. > > > > > > > > On Tue, Feb 8, 2011 at 3:32 PM, bill lam <[email protected]> > wrote: > > > >> Esc is not an established way to close a window or terminate an > > > application. > > > >> I use esc heavily on other applications but not for the purpose of > > > closing > > > >> a window. > > > >> > > > >> If esc is removed from the list for commands for closing a form, > then > > > >> users must have pressing the 'x' button or window manager shortcut > key > > > such > > > >> as ctrl-f4, by doing this, users should fully aware the effect and > the > > > >> intention is clear. Asking again for confirmation will be an > annoyance. > > > >> > > > >> Пнд, 07 Фев 2011, Don Guinn писал(а): > > > >>> The "x" in the Windows environment is a quick way out, going to the > > > option > > > >>> of whether or not to prompt on exiting. If a person wants to exit > J, > > > why go > > > >>> to another prompt to make "are you sure?". The point I was trying > to > > > make is > > > >>> that the JHS and JGTK versions should be somewhat consistent. > > > >>> > > > >>> I choose not to be prompted with the "are you sure?" but I don't > think > > > >>> pressing "esc" should kick in the terminate J sequence. It doesn't > is > > > in > > > >>> browsers. Why should it in JTGK? > > > >>> > > > >>> On Mon, Feb 7, 2011 at 4:04 PM, chris burke <[email protected]> > > > wrote: > > > >>> > > > >>> > There is a ConfirmClose config for this in gtkide config. Default > is > > > >>> > off. Should it be on, or is the default not important? > > > >>> > > > > >>> > On Mon, Feb 7, 2011 at 11:43 PM, Don Guinn <[email protected]> > > > wrote: > > > >>> > > To provide more compatibility between the two environments, > JGTK > > > should > > > >>> > not > > > >>> > > exit on pressing ESC. In JGTK CTRL+a selects all the text. Why > not > > > have > > > >>> > it > > > >>> > > be lab advance? More like in JHS which uses ESC-a for lab > advance. > > > In > > > >>> > > addition CTRL+a could be lab advance in JGTK instead of > selecting > > > all. > > > >>> > > > > > >>> > > It seems to me that it is more important that JGTK and JHS > conform > > > closer > > > >>> > to > > > >>> > > each other than to the conventions of GTK and browsers. If I > use > > > JHS and > > > >>> > get > > > >>> > > used to pressing ESC to do functions I could get in real > trouble > > > trying > > > >>> > to > > > >>> > > use JGTK. > > > >>> > > > > > >>> > > On Sun, Feb 6, 2011 at 9:40 PM, Tikkanz <[email protected]> > wrote: > > > >>> > > > > > >>> > >> I agree managing keybindings across browsers and across OS's > is > > > hard - > > > >>> > >> however my main suggestions below just involve altering the > > > letters > > > >>> > >> used in combination with Esc, not changing the basic key > > > combinations. > > > >>> > >> > > > >>> > >> My mentioning Ctrl+ use in Gmail was intended just as a heads > up > > > that > > > >>> > >> this might be worth investigating sometime in the future ... > J702? > > > >>> > >> ;-). > > > >>> > >> > > > >>> > >> On Mon, Feb 7, 2011 at 4:34 PM, bill lam <[email protected] > > > > > wrote: > > > >>> > >> > My knowledge with jhs is almost empty, but I imagine jhs has > > > already > > > >>> > >> gotten > > > >>> > >> > a hard time to keep keybindings work across different > browsers. > > > JGTK > > > >>> > is > > > >>> > >> > fortunate here. > > > >>> > >> > > > > >>> > >> > Пнд, 07 Фев 2011, Ric Tikkanz писал(а): > > > >>> > >> >> I agree that making keyboard mappings user-configurable is > > > sensible. > > > >>> > >> >> However IMO, the default (Out-of-the-Box) configuration > should > > > as > > > >>> > >> >> similar as possible between the various IDEs. > > > >>> > >> >> > > > >>> > >> >> On Mon, Feb 7, 2011 at 4:15 PM, bill lam < > [email protected]> > > > >>> > wrote: > > > >>> > >> >> > Ideally keybinding should be user configurable because it > is > > > a > > > >>> > matter > > > >>> > >> of > > > >>> > >> >> > personal preference, eg. a certain key chord can be > awkward > > > to > > > >>> > reach > > > >>> > >> in > > > >>> > >> >> > some keyboard mappings. > > > >>> > >> >> > > > > >>> > >> >> > J701 is now a stable release albeit being crude, so that > > > Jbeta > > > >>> > forum > > > >>> > >> can > > > >>> > >> >> > now take a break. > > > >>> > >> >> > > > > >>> > >> >> > Пнд, 07 Фев 2011, Ric Tikkanz писал(а): > > > >>> > >> >> >> I discovered that the Ctrl+j shortcut (same as J602) > works > > > to > > > >>> > advance > > > >>> > >> >> >> from topic to topic but this probably needs to be made > more > > > >>> > >> >> >> discoverable (Help|Studio|Advance ?). > > > >>> > >> >> >> > > > >>> > >> >> >> Ideally the default JHS and Gtk IDE shortcuts for > advancing > > > in a > > > >>> > lab > > > >>> > >> >> >> (and other common things) should use the same letter - > > > currently > > > >>> > JHS > > > >>> > >> >> >> is (Esc,a) while Gtk IDE is (Ctrl+j). > > > >>> > >> >> >> JHS already uses (Esc,j) to switch to the jijx window, > and > > > Gtk IDE > > > >>> > >> >> >> already uses (Ctrl+a) as "select all" - a fairly > widely-used > > > >>> > standard > > > >>> > >> >> >> (browsers, editors). > > > >>> > >> >> >> > > > >>> > >> >> >> Currently: > > > >>> > >> >> >> JHS Gtk > > > >>> > >> >> >> Switch to jijx/Term j T > > > >>> > >> >> >> Switch to jijs/Edit J M > > > >>> > >> >> >> Advance lab topic a j > > > >>> > >> >> >> > > > >>> > >> >> >> > > > >>> > >> >> >> Proposed: > > > >>> > >> >> >> JHS Gtk > > > >>> > >> >> >> Switch to jijx/Term j j > > > >>> > >> >> >> Switch to jijs/Edit J J > > > >>> > >> >> >> Advance lab topic t t > > > >>> > >> >> >> > > > >>> > >> >> >> BTW, as I write this in my browser using Google mail, I > > > notice > > > >>> > that > > > >>> > >> >> >> they have successfully managed to use the standard Ctrl+ > > > shortcuts > > > >>> > >> >> >> that we are used to in desktop apps (i.e. Ctrl+s saves > my > > > draft, > > > >>> > >> >> >> Ctrl+B for bold etc.). It may therefore be possible to > > > emulate > > > >>> > what > > > >>> > >> >> >> they've done in JHS at some stage? > > > >>> > >> >> >> > > > >>> > >> > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > > >>> > >> >> >> For information about J forums see > > > >>> > >> http://www.jsoftware.com/forums.htm > > > >>> > >> >> > > > > >>> > >> >> > -- > > > >>> > >> >> > regards, > > > >>> > >> >> > ==================================================== > > > >>> > >> >> > GPG key 1024D/4434BAB3 2008-08-24 > > > >>> > >> >> > gpg --keyserver subkeys.pgp.net --recv-keys 4434BAB3 > > > >>> > >> >> > > > > >>> > > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > > >>> > >> >> > For information about J forums see > > > >>> > >> http://www.jsoftware.com/forums.htm > > > >>> > >> >> > > > >>> > > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > > >>> > >> >> For information about J forums see > > > >>> > http://www.jsoftware.com/forums.htm > > > >>> > >> > > > > >>> > >> > -- > > > >>> > >> > regards, > > > >>> > >> > ==================================================== > > > >>> > >> > GPG key 1024D/4434BAB3 2008-08-24 > > > >>> > >> > gpg --keyserver subkeys.pgp.net --recv-keys 4434BAB3 > > > >>> > >> > > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > > >>> > >> > For information about J forums see > > > >>> > http://www.jsoftware.com/forums.htm > > > >>> > >> > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > > >>> > >> For information about J forums see > > > http://www.jsoftware.com/forums.htm > > > >>> > >> > > > >>> > > > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > > >>> > > For information about J forums see > > > http://www.jsoftware.com/forums.htm > > > >>> > > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > > >>> > For information about J forums see > > > http://www.jsoftware.com/forums.htm > > > >>> > > > > >>> > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > > >>> For information about J forums see > http://www.jsoftware.com/forums.htm > > > >> > > > >> -- > > > >> regards, > > > >> ==================================================== > > > >> GPG key 1024D/4434BAB3 2008-08-24 > > > >> gpg --keyserver subkeys.pgp.net --recv-keys 4434BAB3 > > > >> > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > > >> For information about J forums see > http://www.jsoftware.com/forums.htm > > > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > > > For information about J forums see > http://www.jsoftware.com/forums.htm > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > > For information about J forums see http://www.jsoftware.com/forums.htm > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > For information about J forums see http://www.jsoftware.com/forums.htm > > -- > regards, > ==================================================== > GPG key 1024D/4434BAB3 2008-08-24 > gpg --keyserver subkeys.pgp.net --recv-keys 4434BAB3 > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > For information about J forums see http://www.jsoftware.com/forums.htm > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- For information about J forums see http://www.jsoftware.com/forums.htm
