I am trying to be a bit more optimistic that shaking things up may help generate enthusiasm. Though given Paul's and other people's response. I may be doing more harm than good. If these projects are beyond salvage. So be it then. Question is should we even bother to ask everyone with a VOTE or just give up right now...
thanks, dims On Fri, Oct 31, 2008 at 7:41 AM, Samisa Abeysinghe <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Davanum Srinivas wrote: >> >> Samisa, >> >> You have hit the nail on the head. People are who they are. Right now >> the umbrella is so vast that everyone is able to hide behind others. >> There is no accountability. When there is a smaller group of active >> people, There will be better accountability to each other and to the >> board and to our end users. >> >> There are tactics that we can employ for example, we should make a new >> single release including all projects including XmlSchema, Rampart and >> Sandesha with Axis2. But still make extra releases of say Sandesha2 as >> necessary as well separately for Sandesha. You will ask, why can't we >> do this today and i'll say that these kind of tactics work better with >> a TLP like focus. >> > > IMHO, sometimes, even getting an Axis2 release out of the door becomes a > rolling stone, and takes so much time. I am not really sure how it would be > to combine all those efforts together. > > Some of the long running and trivial issues like the crappy web site can be > easily solved, give some cycles. Even I can volunteer to do that. However, > you have to consider the long tail, if at all a TLP is to be taken up. Even > it might be a good idea to make Axis3 yes 3 a TLP, but not Axis2. Becase > Axis2 as a TLP would not be the same as the Axis2 as it used to be, both in > technical fronts as well as in non-technical fronts. > > Thanks, > Samisa... > >> thanks, >> dims >> >> On Fri, Oct 31, 2008 at 4:28 AM, Samisa Abeysinghe >> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: >> >>> >>> Davanum Srinivas wrote: >>> >>>> >>>> Eran, >>>> >>>> Clearly you did not read my previous emails. *PLEASE* read them and >>>> then we can continue. >>>> >>>> For example, I said "1. The proposal was to split Axis2+Anything that >>>> Axis2 Uses+Anything that is built on Axis2 into a separate TLP." >>>> >>>> Also, i said this before, but repeat it again, The current status quo >>>> sucks. What we have is not working. >>>> - Really bad web sites >>>> - Really bad status of JIRA issues >>>> - Really bad track record of making releases periodically >>>> - There are many disjoint islands >>>> - The set of projects mentioned above is totally disjoint from other >>>> projects in WS PMC. >>>> >>>> >>> >>> How can a TLP solve all these? If people are who they are now, even after >>> making Axis2 a TLP, the bad websites and bad release cycles will remain. >>> On the other hand, if we cannot sync the releases of Axis2's sub >>> projects, >>> then irrespective of Axis2 being a TLP, it would turn out to be a useless >>> project. Because one of Axis2's key strenghts is the set of sub projects >>> it >>> has. >>> >>> So IMHO, what is more important is to solve the above problems. However, >>> I >>> doubt if TLP would be a solution for that. >>> >>> Samisa... >>> >>>> >>>> What we have is broken, We are not the only ones in this situation, >>>> this has happened before at Apache with XML and Jakarta PMC's. Please >>>> go and look at the history and how the projects are faring now after >>>> becoming logical/smaller footprint PMCs. Please go ask them or ask the >>>> board@ or ask members if you don't believe, let's learn from their >>>> experiences. >>>> >>>> *IF* people who are on the current projects that are not in the " >>>> Axis2+Anything that Axis2 Uses+Anything that is built on Axis2" list >>>> want to tell us something, they should chime in and tell us what they >>>> think and we'll take a vote. >>>> >>>> Right now it's just a few of us who are just repeating the same things >>>> over and over again without even reading what the other person is >>>> saying. >>>> >>>> thanks, >>>> dims >>>> >>>> On Thu, Oct 30, 2008 at 6:07 PM, Eran Chinthaka >>>> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: >>>> >>>> >>>>> >>>>> On Thu, Oct 30, 2008 at 5:42 PM, Davanum Srinivas <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >>>>> wrote: >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> Chinthaka, >>>>>> >>>>>> What are the problems that will be created? Please enumerate them. How >>>>>> is it being handled / smoothed over now and what would change >>>>>> specifically to make the cooperation not happen. >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Problems : >>>>> >>>>> 1. Another member will have to waste time on doing PMC work >>>>> 2. We will lose the tight dependency between Axis2 and related projects >>>>> like >>>>> Axiom, Neethi, Sandesha, etc., >>>>> >>>>> There are numerous things like this that will happen. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> If you can point your finger to specific scenarios. We can see if we >>>>>> can come up with specific solutions. (Say common svn area where both >>>>>> committers can have access). >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Let me back up. What is broken in the current layout that mandates us >>>>> to >>>>> go >>>>> for different TLPs? >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> Also, Don't mind me, i repeat my mantra for the n-th time again. Those >>>>>> who are actively working on a day to day basis should be taking the >>>>>> decisions. What we are doing is not working and i propose we try >>>>>> something new to see if it will work. >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> My point is exactly this. Why do we waste time on going to fix >>>>> something >>>>> which is not broken? Let's get back to work ;) >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>> >>> -- >>> Samisa Abeysinghe >>> >>> http://people.apache.org/~samisa/ >>> >>> >>> --------------------------------------------------------------------- >>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] >>> For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] >>> >>> >>> >> >> >> >> > > > -- > Samisa Abeysinghe > > http://people.apache.org/~samisa/ > > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > -- Davanum Srinivas :: http://davanum.wordpress.com --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
