On 08/08/2013 01:21 AM, Duncan wrote: > Alex Alexander posted on Thu, 08 Aug 2013 05:51:38 +0300 as excerpted: > >> On Thu, Aug 8, 2013 at 2:49 AM, Patrick Lauer wrote: >> >>> On 08/07/2013 09:14 PM, Alexandre Rostovtsev wrote: >>>> On Wed, 2013-08-07 at 14:45 +0200, Michael Weber wrote: >>>>> >>>>> Gnome Herd decided to target stablilization of 3.8 [1] which >>>>> requires systemd. >>>>> >>>>> What are the reasons to stable 3.8 and not 3.6, a version w/o this >>>>> restriction, enabling all non systemd users to profit from this >>>>> eye-candy as well. >>>> >>>> To stabilize gnome-3.6, we would need [people willing to do it]. >>>> We do not have such people on the gnome team. >>>> >>> Seeing the noise in #gentoo from people getting whacked in the kidney >>> by the systemd sidegrade ... that's a very optimistic decision. >>> >>> It'll cause lots of pain for users that suddenly can't start lvm >>> properly and other nasty landmines > >>> I hope you understand that some of us will be very rude and just >>> suggest to unmerge gnome on all support requests as it now moves >>> outside our support range ... >>> >> Although I understand your frustration, I don't see any other options >> for the Gentoo gnome team. People who don't like this should take their >> complaints upstream. > > That reads to me like resigned acceptance. > > Gentoo/gnome is simply working with what upstream gnome gives them, which > for gentoo/gnome users now means a choice between gnome with systemd and > if no systemd, no gnome either. Upstream decision that gentoo/gnome is > dealing with too. > > ... > > [Those uninterested in gentoo/kde can stop reading here, as the rest of > the post is a complaint about that project not taking the same position.] > > Gentoo/kde users would be so lucky! > > As a gentoo/kde-er, I *WISH* the gentoo/kde team was as similarly willing > to continue support for the options kde upstream *ARE* still providing -- > kde4 with the semantic-desktop options turned off. Yes, this does mean > doing without kdepim, but that has been the case for several versions, no > upstream change there for 4.11, at least not for kde's base packages as > necessary to run a kde desktop, yet gentoo carried support for building > kde without semantic-desktop in 4.10, and doesn't in 4.11. > > Meanwhile, while the same build-time options that worked in 4.10 still > work in 4.11 (I know, as I put a lot of work into patching the ebuilds > here when gentoo/kde removed the options despite upstream continuing to > have them), the gentoo/kde project has decided to force the semantic- > desktop option ON for gentooers even where upstream continues to provide > the option to turn it off! > > > None-the-less, I do understand the problem of a gentoo project supporting > an option no devs on the project are actually interested in running. > Testing would be left to users, and quality would suffer a bit as a > result, but I know for a fact that there's users out there DOING that > testing, even with the additional cost of having to maintain ebuild > patches themselves to do it, because I'm one of them! Further, I'm > running 4.11.49.9999 live-branch and was running the betas before the > branch from trunk, so there's at least one user actually doing that > testing early enough to catch a good share of that feature's problems > before they get anywhere close to ~arch, let alone stable. > > Despite, or perhaps /because/ of, all the previous pain kde upstream has > caused its users with the 4.x bump (which unlike the 4.10/4.11 bump was > at LEAST a major version bump) and with kdepim's switch to akonadi > mid-4.x (which unfortunately was NOT a major version bump), this time > there's no indication of upstream kde changing semantic-desktop horses > mid-stream and mid-major-version and forcing it on like that; it's > gentoo/kde that's doing it, pure and simple. > > And I've already posted that regardless of what upstream kde or gentoo/kde > does, after all the trouble I went thru to rid my system of semantic- > desktop earlier in the kde4 series, I'm not ABOUT to enable it again now, > yes indeed, even if that means I unmerge the kde desktop entirely and > switch to something else -- which after all I've already done for major > portions of kde, including switching kmail->claws-mail when kdepim > unfortunately jumped the shark mid-major-version. > > > So as I said, gentoo/kde-ers would be so lucky, if the gentoo/kde project > took the same position gentoo/gnome's taking here, that they support what > upstream offers, that gentoo/gnome's only forcing systemd because > upstream gnome's forcing it. Were that the case, semantic-desktop > wouldn't be forced by gentoo/kde in kde 4.11, where upstream still offers > the same options they did in 4.10, where gentoo/kde offered the option as > well. > > Meanwhile, I guess I know what the kde-sunset users felt like now... > except in that case as well as the gentoo/gnome case but unlike this one, > upstream WAS dropping support, and the gentoo project was simply > following upstream... >
Wow, that really sucks. I'm not posting this to the ML since I have nothing to offer to their discussion. All this mess with GNOME and KDE makes me happy to run vanilla X with Fluxbox, though. :P Which options have you considered, if Gentoo/KDE doesn't re-enable the option to disable semantic desktop? Regards, Daniel
