On 05/06/2014 13:50, Markos Chandras wrote: > On 05/06/2014 09:10 AM, Joshua Kinard wrote: >> On 05/06/2014 03:07, Markos Chandras wrote: >>> @kumba: You mentioned too many times that I wanted to "drop" support for >>> mips3 and mips4. I never said that (I am sort-of tired keep repeating >>> that). All I said (again) was to reduce the frequency or stop building >>> them at all. Users can still get an existing mips3/mips4 stage3 and >>> update themselves >> >> Maybe it's just my way of interpretation, but in your opening paragraph, >> even though you said we wouldn't drop support, you did suggest not creating >> new stages for mips1-mips4. >> >> Given a sufficiently long-enough time, that effectively drops support due to >> bitrot. Like I mentioned w/ the 2009-era userland on this Octane, I am not >> going to even try to update that, simply due to the amount of time it would >> take, even if I figure the IRQ prioritization bugs out. >> >> So, my apologies if I read it wrong, but that's just how I see it. >> >> >>> (picking up a random thread) >>> >>> Ok thanks for the replies. >>> >>> Ok I think it's safe to proceed with the following: >>> - Stop mips1 builds (we don't have mips2) >> >> I'll defer to Matt to chime in to my last message and correct me anymore, if >> needed, but, I think we'll want to keep either a mips1 or a mips2, but not >> both. As well as decide whether it's a full stage3 or just a simple >> stage1/stage2 tarball so people have a base from which to start a port to a >> new MIPS machine if needed. That can get updated once a year, especially if >> it's a stage1 which shouldn't take long at all. > > I see no value for mips1 or mips2 so feel free to pick these up. Even if > someone is using them as bootstrap, then *any* mips1 stage3 would do.
WFM. >>> - Reduce the frequency to once-a-year for mips3 and mips4. Updating >>> these stages every year with catalyst will be a lot of fun ;) >> >> NAK, At least once every 6 months, and preferably shortly after the .1 >> release of a new major gcc rev, given gcc's absurd compile time now. Gentoo >> moves fast, and a lot can change in a year. > > Forgive me but this almost sounds like an order :) This is not going to > happen, sorry :) I don't want to become a build robot and spend all my > Gentoo/MIPS time doing stages. With the introduction of new ISAs, the > total number of stages will grow even more, and like i explained > multiple times, this does not scale. There are other parts of the > architecture that needs some love too and right now I have no time for both. It's not an order, sorry. Just a preference to avoid long compile times. If you have a stage3 built against gcc-4.8.x, and 4.9.x becomes stable, someone installing will have to compile 4.9, then rebuild everything to gain the enhancements 4.9 will bring. If a new stage3 is built after the .1 release of a new major rev (so that we avoid major bugs in the .0 release), that should mitigate that problem. > And you haven't really convinced me why mips4 is desired, when mips3 can > run just fine on mips4 hardware. I think you need to be realist, and > take into consideration, not just your personal needs, but also the time > it actually takes to build and maintain all these stages. I explained > that so many times already, I am not going to do that again. > As Anthony said, mipsel3 is used by lemote, so keeping it alive is > probably a good thing (though the newer hardware is mips64 capable) Well, to me, mips3 != mipsel3. Sorry about that. When I say mips3/mips4 (lowercase), I usually refer to big-endian. If I capitalize the ISA, i.e., MIPS-III or MIPS-IV, then I'm referring to the entire ISA, regardless of endianness. So, to re-clarify my original statement, for big-endian SGI systems, we probably only need mips4 and I guess the mips4_r10 stages. I don't know if any of our users still have or run R4x00 mips3 big-endian equipment. If so, well, I can do that too, then. It's just a higher electric bill :) And it's not really my personal preference. Based on my understanding of what we currently support, that's what makes sense to me. I know you work on MIPS stuff for your day job, but it's a hobby for me, so I have to prioritize things a bit differently. That said, I've done catalyst runs before, so I know how time-consuming they can be, especially if the build breaks somewhere in the middle of a long compile. I think what we need to do is instead of having just one person like you or Matt do all of the stage building, separate out the ISAs/ABIs/etc to the people that actually care most about it. Anthony works with the mipsel3 Lemote hardware, so if he wants, he can take care of mipsel3 stages; I'll handle the SGI stuff since I know a lot about those machines; and you can cover whichever of the newer ISAs matter most to you. Sound reasonable? We can even work out a set timetable for stage building, or just release individual stages on an as-needed basis. >> Otherwise, just e-mail me your mips3/mips4/mips4_r10 spec files, any custom >> tweaks/changes to catalyst, and any specific instructions you do >> before/during/after a catalyst build and I'll put the O2 to work if needed. >> > > There is nothing special about my spec files and I do nothing special in > catalyst so feel free to pick up the mips3 and mips4 stages. If you are > having troubles with catalyst email the gentoo-catalyst@ ML. That might > actually be a good way for you to become active again ;) Back in the past, I had to tweak catalyst sometimes to get it to do stage builds properly. A lot of those bugs have probably been fixed by now, at least for stage1-3. The livecd stages and netboots, however, were much more problematic. If you can still send me at least one of your stage3 spec files, that'd be appreciated. It's been 5-6 years since I last messed with catalyst. The Octane was my build platform, but combined with the bitrot that prevented it from booting, moving, a new job, etc, I never got around to setting up stage building on the O2. Now that I can boot Octane again, I can at least recover my old spec files, though. Might help if I ever attempt to tackle the livecd or netboot builds again. -- Joshua Kinard Gentoo/MIPS [email protected] 4096R/D25D95E3 2011-03-28 "The past tempts us, the present confuses us, the future frightens us. And our lives slip away, moment by moment, lost in that vast, terrible in-between." --Emperor Turhan, Centauri Republic
