Spider, you make some very valid points. I've written a (small, kludgy, in-house, will never be fit for prime time) text installer in python that essentially asks all the pertinent configuration questions (root partition, boot partitoin, swap partition, what filesystem type(s) one wants, static ip address v. dhcp, dns v. nis, etc.) and then does the rest of the install unattended, essentially following the installation guide and desktop howto, then further customizing per my company's needs.
Which led me to the idea of a TEXT BASED, split window installation program that would LEAD or GUIDE one through the install WITHOUT dumbing it down, with a lynx window in the (upper or right) half of the screen and a text prompt, or text editor (choosable at the beginning between vi, nano, emacs, ??? perhaps) when appropriate for configuring the system. Help available at the console at all times, with an explanaition of what you are doing (e.g PURPOSE: network configuration; ACTION: editing /etc/conf.d/net, followed by an explanaition a la the install guide). All interactive work (edits, etc.) would be done at the beginning, then one walks away and lets the compiler run. My script is nowhere near anything like this ... it takes some (ugly) prompts, gets the minimal information it needs, and sets up a system tailored to my and my employer's needs (hard coded in the python script), but this approach would seem to address most of the complaints requesting an installer of sorts, without dumbing the process down and lowering the bar as a Mandrake-style installer might. Those wanting eye candy might be disappointed, but those simply wanting a little less manual difficulty with the installation, and those who simply thing that hand installs come across to their corporate masters as too "unpolished", ought to be satisfied for the most part, with no dumbing down of the process involved. I agree with you 100%: any installer that hides and denies the user knowledge is, in the medium and long term, a great disservice, and I agree with your concerns as to what the ramifications would be (even less clueful people posting even less clueful bug reports, etc.). So, with that in mind, an ideal installer for gentoo from my perspective would be: 1) NOT graphical, but rather text (curses?) based, so it can be run remotely in a chrooted environment on a working, installed system (clean upgrades from scratch, which are often desired) 2) poses all interactive questions at the beginning and end of the process, so one can walk away from a week long compile (literally, on a P2/233) after spending a few minutes answering questions and editing files, then come back at the end of that (day|weekend|week), edit rc.conf, enter a root password, and perhaps answer another couple of questions and then reboot. I.e. no interactive work done in the middle of the install! 3) NOT dumbed down. User should be GUIDED and EDUCATED, not, and I repeat, not have the underlying architecture and complexity hidden from them. Knowing where to hand edit a file from the beginning makes later tasks (putting the machine on a new network, changing its name, upgrading its kernel, etc.) vastly easier and faster than doing a quick, slick, fancy-schmancy graphical install and then having no idea what (Red Hat|Mandrake|Suse) file to edit when changes are needed later. I prefer no installer to a graphical installer, but would find something like the above both very useful from a time and convinience perspective, and useful in educating newcomers to how Gentoo and Linux works in perhaps a less daunting fashion than the hand editing process is (meaning we'd likely get more clueful users as a result, rather than clueless ones). Alas, I am so swamped with work (moving office, etc.) that I won't have time to even think about this stuff for several months, but if one of the folks clammering for an installer wants to take a crack at it, I humbly submit my (non-patented, free for any non-proprietary use) thoughts as a possible starting point. regards, Jean. -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailing list
