Rich Freeman <rich0 <at> gentoo.org> writes:
> > The reason I jumped into this thread is that someone had problems with > > the java project. I'm not sure, but maybe something is wrong with > > my eyes? Your eyes are fine. Gmane's web interface was hosed. I tried to use nntp (earlybird) but that interface does not consistently respond to the thread, so hacking at the settings and posting(tests) seems to upset some..... I appreciate your ideas, I mostly like the ideas of distributed development for non "core" modules. I also believe and Rich as articulated, that we mostly have thing now. Where I diagree with Rich is this. Sure, If somebody has been a gentoo dev for years, has push access then they can get coding completed. If you are new to the depths of what gentoo devs do, then it is opaque as to which docs to read, dealing with the technical details that are currently used and which are either not documented or poorly documented, etc etc. It's not that any of the devs have a desire to keep folks from becoming deeply capable devs such as themselves, it that these "elites" spend very little time, paving a path for others "fledgling devs"; so the the cost barrier to gaining inside (current) knowledge is very him, imho. Most will just drift to anothe distro where that sort of help is more redily available. Thank god for SVEN. But, he cannot clean up the myriad of docs that need tlc. What you do not seem to "comprehend" Rich, is what most non super_devs want is some help, imho. Just look back at your harsh postings on java. It's rather crushing for folks that want to use Java. Quite simply, I'm developing the skills to use java on gentoo. Those keen developers within the java team, are spread very thin; just look at what they are recruiting for: http://wiki.gentoo.org/wiki/Project:Gentoo/Staffing_Needs So I understand that you are not interested in Java. So, how do we find or develop a "gentoo-inner-circle-java-interested" dev? With out that java does not have a chance to gain traction within gentoo, imho. OK, so dont beat me up for being lazy (stupid as volker points out routinely) just *help me* via private email who at Gentoo is the java wizard? I'll do tons of grunt work to make then happy.? OK? Oh shit: problem one. Go clean up BGO's java bugs. I cant because it has become a circular cluster_F!. Too many old blocking bugs; nobody (who gives a shit) with the authority to purge java bugs. > And my point was that the only problem I see with Java is that nobody > is actually working on it. If nobody works on distributed java > repositories, it will be just as bad. Rich, there are billions of Java codes, available in source form that can easily have ebuilds created. But we have poor support for maven, etc. So they go nowhere. (I believe a gentoo-dev for maven is the blocker here. I know that Maven is not easy. I am not (yet) close to being qualified to work on deep maven issues withing gentoo. > My specific request was WHO is trying to do something to improve Java > and finding a policy that is preventing them from doing so, and WHAT > policy is causing the problem? see details above? > It is easy to talk about vague problems. It is harder to actually > pinpoint specific issues that can actually be fixed. > Please don't take this as a personal attack - I generally have a lot > of respect for you. I just don't think that this is a helpful way of > approaching these problems. Ah, I think Hasufell has very good intentions and some keen ideas. My fear is java is getting not love from the gentoo innner circle. So we reduce the innner circle dev count, move java to the perimeter (where nobody cares that is remotely connected to the inner-circle) and java get's better? I've seen this sort of thing thousands of times in my life. Java will just be purged from Gentoo, reticent on your previous postings about your feelings towards Java. Another council member in 2013 was all encouraging about gentoo-clustering. But now that clustering is mostly java centric (imho), few at Gentoo care about cluster on gentoo. Convenient. Sad. Not really encourage to the fledgling community that are willing to work on java, but need leadership. I put (2) ebuilds into BGO. apache-mesos and apache-spark. bugs 510912 and 523412. There they languish. Following the outside overlay semantic guidance, newer versions are here, thanks to Alec: https://github.com/trozamon/overlay/tree/master/sys-cluster So as you point out, go and work on what you want. Really? You think they'll get move to the gentoo tree any time soon? I'm mostly looking for help, encouragement and guidance. I am not looking for harsh reponses that are discouraging. I am not trying to harash you, I appreciate what you do for Gentoo, very much. I get you are not interested in anything remotely connected to java. I would appreciated your keen insight into finding us a java leader that is not burnt to a crisp by the gentoo-stress-burnout syndrome that seems to surging, again. If you want java to prosper at Gentoo, it's gonna take an "inner-circle" gentoo-dev to at least cheerlead for java within gentoo, imho. hth, James
