>Consider that in the arctic, above 38 degrees north latitude, a reduction of more than 1,134 Megawatts per square mile per day can be achieved by replacing open seawater with a layer of snow-covered ice.
Megawatts per day? On Aug 17, 9:45 pm, "Eugene I. Gordon" <euggor...@comcast.net> wrote: > Peter: > > My dogs do not distinguish between spheres and circular plates; they will > chase anything that I throw; they are all 'balls'. I characterized the idea > as silly but perhaps not as silly as might appear. > > Spray foam insulation in houses typically costs 90 cents pr square meter > including installation. I would guess the large volume cost for spraying > bursts of foam on the ocean by a ship to make round floating plates would be > about 10 cents per square meter or $100 K per square kilometer or $100 > million for 1000 square kilometers on the ocean as say 1 square meter > roughly circular pieces made by timed spray bursts. They would float freely > and and remain on the surface and certainly reduce heat absorption even if > they are covered by bird droppings, but in fact that might stay reasonably > clean. They would be moved naturally out of the way of small and large boats > and even if they break into pieces they would be effective in keeping > sunlight from being absorbed by the water. Since they are insulating the > effective surface reflectivity would be 100% even if they got dirty. > Absorbed energy would be simply radiated away and not heat the water > underneath unless it splashes over the warmed surface. > > If it indeed would cost no more than $100 million it would be a bargain if > it made ice form by keeping the ocean water from heating. > > -gene > > _____ > > From: Peter Read [mailto:pe...@read.org.nz] On Behalf Of Peter Read > Sent: Monday, August 17, 2009 6:30 PM > To: euggor...@comcast.net; terratw...@gmail.com; > geoengineering@googlegroups.com > Subject: Re: [geo] Re: atmospheric and oceanic warming > > Why balls when flat plates would do better? e.g. all the polystyrene packing > material that gets junked, if it could be persuaded to stay white and if > seals and polar bears could be persuaded not to eat it. Or, if you get > serious, what cost for 1000 sq Km of 2 cm thick polystyrene boards that > would get embedded in the winter ice and maybe stop it melting through in > the summer? > Peter > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Eugene I. <mailto:euggor...@comcast.net> Gordon > To: terratw...@gmail.com ; geoengineering@googlegroups.com > Sent: Tuesday, August 18, 2009 4:21 AM > Subject: [geo] Re: atmospheric and oceanic warming > > Thanks for your e-mail. There is a trivial typo; 97% should be 93%. If we > could reverse the arctic ice melt it would go a long way toward reducing the > rate of warming or even might achieve some cooling. > > In any case the earth is warming independent of manmade greenhouse gas and > will continue to warm until the temperature reaches 25 C as it has done many > times during the past 450 million years. That is an offline discussion thta > we can have but the bottom line is that geoengineering is needed in any case > with or without CO2 emissions and long term; reversing the artic ice melt > may not be enough. > > My choice for reversing the ice melt would be to distribute SO2 over the > Arctic only. It will slowly spread southward but the main cooling would be > over the Arctic and that should allow more ice to form. > > Here is a silly idea. Form lightweight sunlight reflecting balls that can > last for a few years and distribute them to float on the arctic ocean > waters. That would certainly increase the solar reflectance and possibly > allow ice to form trapping the balls in the ice. On open ocean they would > not interfere with shipping, polar bears, etc. > > -gene > > _____ > > From: geoengineering@googlegroups.com > [mailto:geoengineer...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Brian Abel > Sent: Monday, August 17, 2009 12:50 AM > To: geoengineering@googlegroups.com > Subject: [geo] atmospheric and oceanic warming > > All, > > I would very much be interested in your opinion of a concept I have been > exploring, but as to date I have yet to find similar proposals. I would > like to submit for your consideration a potentially effective approach to > help globally manage some of the more concerning elements of atmospheric and > oceanic warming. Please feel free to respond with your harshest criticisms, > any questions, and whatever supporting information you might have. The idea > is presented partially below, followed by a copy of some dialogue which will > hopefully answer and help you ask the types of questions that a concept such > as this might require. Any modeling studies which you might be aware of > evaluating oceanic heat rejection to arctic atmosphere, and/or arctic > surface albedo adjustment would also be of tremendous interest to me. > > Thank you. > -Brian M. Abel > <terratw...@gmail.com> > > Global Warming Initiative > > A conceptual approach to the problem of global warming > > As concern continues to mount over global warming and controversy rages over > the role the "greenhouse" gases play in climate change, one thing is > certain; the planet appears to be warming up at an alarming rate. > > A great deal of consideration has been given to reducing greenhouse gas > emissions as a means of slowing or reversing global warming. However, until > an alternative to carbon-based energy sources is found, reducing man-made > CO2 emissions is little more than a pipe dream. And even the most > optimistic of proponents for greenhouse gas reductions acknowledge that it > may take decades to reverse the global trend - if it is possible at all. > > We are now prepared to propose a conceptual alternative to the issue of > global warming. > > Background: > > The Earth receives an enormous amount of solar radiation. Just above the > atmosphere, the solar power flux density averages about 1367 watts/m2, or > 1.28 * 1014 watts over the entire earth. This power is balanced over time by > a roughly equal amount of power radiating from the earth. Ideally Energy In > should equal Energy Out. Various factors can influence this balance in one > or the other direction, resulting in an atmospheric and/or planetary > temperature change. > > We are convinced that an immediate and workable alternative to reducing > greenhouse gases to reduce global warming lies in reducing the amount of > heat captured and retained by the planet from solar energy. This can be > accomplished by changing the albedo (simply stated, reflectivity) of a > portion of the planet's surface. By reflecting more solar energy away from > the planet, less heat is absorbed. > > Albedo is defined in terms of a 0 - 1 scale with 0 representing total > absorption of all of the incoming solar energy and 1 representing total > reflection of all incoming solar energy. Figure 1 shows the relative > reflectivity of various planetary components as a percentage of the energy > they reflect. For example, fresh snow at roughly 84% reflects 84% of the > incoming energy and would have an albedo of .84 > > We propose a method of assisting a natural positive feedback cycle involving > the polar ice caps. Snow-covered arctic ice has an albedo of 0.8, meaning > 80 percent of the received sunlight is reflected back to space. By > contrast, the albedo for sea water is around 0.07, meaning that only 7 > percent of the received sunlight is reflected. Or, in other words, 97% of > the solar energy goes into the seawater. > > A Growing Crisis: > > According to Worldwatch Institute; "the Earth's ice cover is melting in more > places and at higher rates than at any time since record keeping began." > > As our planet's best reflector melts, more and more solar energy is being > absorbed by the ocean, causing it to heat up even more -- which, of course, > will trigger even further losses of ice. This in turn causes sea levels to > rise, dilutes ocean water, disturbs normal currents, and impacts various > marine and terrestrial life cycles. > > The Concept: "TerraTweaking" > > We approach the problem by asking the question "What would happen if a > portion of the lost ice and snow cover could be restored?" Suppose, by > applying technologies well within mankind's grasp, significant areas could > be given new ice and snow cover. Would it be possible to locally raise the > albedo of an area sufficiently to offset a portion of the temperature rise. > Early indications suggest that the answer may be "yes". > > The concept of terraforming, the transformation of the atmosphere (or > biosphere) of another planet into one having the characteristics of Earth, > originated in science fiction but has, in recent years, found serious > proponents within the technical community. Although terraforming of another > planet is currently well beyond the technical abilities of mankind, if for > no other reason than the simple logistics of transporting supplies, > equipment, personnel, etc. to an other planet, "terratweaking" of our own > planet may well be within our grasp. > > Imagine a fleet of ships equipped with snow-making equipment capable of > covering large areas of low-albedo ocean or bare land with a blanket of > snow. Consider that in the arctic, above 38 degrees north latitude, a > reduction of more than 1,134 Megawatts per square mile per day can be > achieved by replacing open seawater with a layer of snow-covered ice. As > more solar heat is reflected away from the area, less heat is absorbed by > the seawater, allowing ice and snow cover to remain longer. As more ice and > snow is formed, salt is pushed into the ocean water below the ice where it > sinks and thereby contributes to thermohaline circulation, natures global > heat "conveyer belt". This process is a positive feedback system which > naturally seeks to be self perpetuating. In the same manner, as snow and > ice cover diminishes, the process can function as a negative feedback > system. By providing a small push ("tweak") in the right direction, we > believe that it may be possible to retard or even reverse the current > warming trend. > > Detailed Description: > > As seasonal new sea ice begins forming in polar regions, saltwater is > distilled aboard an ocean-worthy vessel. Brine, a by-product of the > distillation process, is discharged back > > ... > > read more » --~--~---------~--~----~------------~-------~--~----~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "geoengineering" group. To post to this group, send email to geoengineering@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to geoengineering+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/geoengineering?hl=en -~----------~----~----~----~------~----~------~--~---
