Thank you, Nando, for explaining the misunderstanding that Jim Thomas seemed to have. I think the matter should rest there!
Cheers, John --- Nando wrote: > > > Jim, > > > Simply put, biochar particles are too heavy and large to become > airborne in the way black carbon emitted in smoke does. This > misunderstanding may be due to a confusion between the way climate > scientists and soil scientists use the term "black carbon". Same term, > but the material they each refer to has very different properties. > Biochar cannot remain airborne, it doesn't waft up into the air, > either off or out of the soil. > > The experiment you refer to was intentionally done with very dry > powdery biochar on a very windy day with a particular type of spreader > specifically as a test trying different spreading techniques to see > how much would blow away under worst conditions. I can /guarantee/ you > that biochar costs a farmer way too much for them to allow this to > happen under production conditions. There are good reasons to quench > or wet biochar prior to application in any case, but the simple > solution, if using this type of spreader, is to wet the biochar. > > Once char is incorporated in soil, or mixed with compost and/or > minerals, biochar tends to aggregate in clumps with other soil > compounds. It immediately takes on the consistency of good black soil. > > Nando > > On Tue, Dec 15, 2009 at 1:56 PM, John Nissen <[email protected] > <mailto:[email protected]>> wrote: > > > Dear Jim, > > You seem to think that the biochar process implies throwing vast > quantities of the charcoal residue into the air. That would be plain > stupid. The essential thing about the biochar process is that the > products of combustion are all captured - so to then pollute the air > with the carbon would be absurd. > > I am now convinced that biochar has tremendous potential benefits: > > 1. capturing carbon dioxide from the atmosphere, helping to bring the > level below 350 ppm; > > 2. using the charcoal as a soil improver to increase crop production; > > 3. providing biofuel without sacrificing food production; > > 4. doing the above without putting black carbon or organic carbon into > the atmosphere. > > Anyway, I passed your message onto the biochar group, since you might > not have been able to post there. This was the first response, > and was > from MAx Turunen: > > --- > If charcoal powder is mixed with wet plant slurry, like that which > comes > out from local-materials technology biodigestors, as a Terra Preta > -type > mixture... it should not be getting airborne... and mixture that has > been seeped into sand surface layers should not be crawling out to > become airborne either... but... instead tilling the land, and pouring > on dry charcoal powder... and doing this on very arid conditions.. > > > This is not something to leave to the management of peoples focused on > making a quick buck... "ahh... we get better quarterly profits this > year, increasing our portofolio value and appeal at stockmarkets, > if we > leave out the compost... and we can count what we pour on fields as > carbon offset cash according to local officials... besides, now we > have > time to invest on fertilizer industry shares, as there will be more of > that needed as less charcoal stays in fields... and why should we > worry > about charcoal dust being blown to glaciers, law mandates that we > stick > to worrying only about our investors profits... besides, this way > we can > sell them farmers even more charcoal and count it as even more offset > cash..." > > matters a lot *how* things are done. Just any Charcoal to > somewhere in > bulk... or Terra Preta -type mixtures, with first thinking and > planning > with locals about conditions and places ? > > > MaxT > > --- > > Cheers from Chiswick, > > John > > --- > > jim thomas wrote: > > John > > > > I have trouble understanding why you think biochar would reduce the > > release of black carbon. Biochar IS black carbon and indeed the real > > world application of biochar appears to release a large quantity of > > black carbon particles into the air. > > > > A preliminary report from a recent study here in Quebec, Canada > > reported that about 30% of the biochar (applied in granulated form) > > blew away during application.. (see Preliminary Evaluation of > Biochar > > in a Commercial Farming Operation in Canada, BlueLeaf Inc, 2009, > > > > www.dynamotive.com/wp-content/themes/dynamotive/pdf/BlueLeaf_Biochar_Field_Trial_2008.pdf > > <http://www.dynamotive.com/wp-content/themes/dynamotive/pdf/BlueLeaf_Biochar_Field_Trial_2008.pdf> > ) > > - some amazing images there of airborne biochar! > > > > Soil erosion in the months and years after application is a further > > way in which biochar is likely to become airborne. > > > > As you know airborne black carbon has a highly positive radiative > > forcing because it absorbs solar radiation and reduces albedo. How > > strong this effect will be depends on the size of biochar particles > > which are blown away – the lower end of the particle size of > charcoal > > extends into the same range as that of soot, the submicron > range. A > > report by CSIRO states: The size of biochar particles is relatively > > rapidly decreased, concentrating in size fractions <5μm diameter.” > > (Biochar, climate change and soil: A review to guide future > research, > > CSIRO, Saran Sohi et al, February 2009, > > www.csiro.au/files/files/poei.pdf > <http://www.csiro.au/files/files/poei.pdf> ) > > > > Scaled up to a large enough application to be considered > > geo-engineering there is an argument to be made based on teh > > Dynamotive trias that applying biochar could actually worsen warming > > through release of airborne black carbon rather than reduce it.. > > > > best > > > > Jim Thomas > > ETC Group. > > > > On Dec 14, 2009, at 4:55 PM, John Nissen wrote: > > > >> > >> Hi all, > >> > >> Saving the Tibetan glaciers must be high on the list of priorities > >> for action - but perhaps behind Amazon and the Arctic sea ice > because > >> these have a higher short-term risk. As with the Arctic sea ice, > >> black carbon and organic carbon (BC and OC) reduction should be > part > >> of the solution. (Explorers have pointed out how grubby the > >> Greenland glaciers look.) In the quest to reduce global > warming and > >> ocean acidification by carbon dioxide removal, a major > advantage of > >> the biochar process could be the avoidance of BC and OC. > >> > >> I've just received this from Jim Hansen: > >> > >> --- > >> Survival of Tibetan Glaciers: New PNAS paper on black soot & > >> Himalayan glaciers is available at > >> > http://www.pnas.org/content/early/2009/12/07/0910444106.full.pdf+html > <http://www.pnas.org/content/early/2009/12/07/0910444106.full.pdf+html> > >> > >> A discussion of it is on the GISS web site at > >> http://www.giss.nasa.gov/research/briefs/hansen_14/ > <http://www.giss.nasa.gov/research/briefs/hansen_14/> > >> --- > >> > >> The discussion is as follows: > >> > >> Survival of Tibetan Glaciers > >> By James Hansen — December 2009 > >> > >> Glaciers on the Tibetan Plateau, sometimes called Earth's "third > >> pole", hold the largest ice mass outside the polar regions. These > >> glaciers act as a water storage tower for South and East Asia, > >> releasing melt water in warm months to the Indus, Ganges, > Brahmaputra > >> and other river systems, providing fresh water to more than a > billion > >> people. In the dry season glacial melt provides half or more of the > >> water in many rivers. > >> > >> <figure1_s.gif> > >> Figure 1. Five ice cores were extracted from the indicated > >> locationson the Tibetan plateau. The white dashed line is the > >> northerly boundary of the Indian monsoon. (View larger image) > >> > >> Tibetan glaciers have been melting at an accelerating rate over the > >> past decade. Glacier changes depend on local weather, especially > >> snowfall, so glacier retreat or advance fluctuates with time and > >> place. Thus it is inevitable that some Tibetan glaciers advance > over > >> short periods, as has been reported. But overall, Tibetan glaciers > >> are retreating at an alarming rate. > >> > >> Global warming must be the primary cause of glacier retreat, > which is > >> occurring on a global scale, but observed rapid melt rates suggest > >> that other factors may be involved. To investigate the possible > role > >> of black soot in causing glacial melt, a team of scientists from > >> Chinese research institutes extracted ice cores from five locations > >> on the Tibetan Plateau (Figure 1). > >> > >> Black soot, which includes black carbon (BC) and organic carbon > (OC), > >> absorbs sunlight and can speed glacial melting if BC reaches values > >> of order 10 ng/g (nanograms per gram) or larger. The ice core data > >> revealed that BC reached values of 20-50 ng/g in the 1950s and > 1960s > >> for the four stations that are downwind of European pollution > >> sources. BC and OC amounts decreased strongly in the early 1970s, > >> probably because of clean air regulations in Europe. > >> > >> However, the ice cores also reveal that in the past decade BC > and OC > >> began to increase again, even on the Zuoqiupu glacier (Figure 2), > >> which is mainly subject to Asian sources. The data suggest that > >> increased black soot arises from Asian sources, especially the > Indian > >> subcontinent. > >> > >> The measured concentrations of BC and OC refer to fresh snow. > But as > >> the snow melts in the spring and summer the black soot > concentrations > >> on the glacier surface increase, because the soot particles do not > >> escape in the melt water as efficiently as the water itself. As a > >> consequence, the soot noticeably darkens the glacier surface during > >> the melt season, increases absorption of sunlight, and speeds > glacier > >> disintegration. > >> > >> <figure2_s.gif> > >> Figure 2.Black carbon (BC) and organic carbon (OC) > concentrations in > >> the Zuoqiupu ice core for the monsoon (June-Sept) and non-monsoon > >> (Oct-May) seasons, and the annual mean. (View larger image) > >> > >> In a new paper by Xu et al., we concluded that black soot is > >> contributing to the rapid melt of glaciers in the Himalayas. And > >> continued, "business-as-usual" emissions of greenhouse gases and > >> black soot will result in the loss of most Himalayan glaciers this > >> century, with devastating effects on fresh water supplies in dry > >> seasons. > >> > >> But business-as-usual emissions are not inevitable. An alternative > >> scenario, which stabilizes the glaciers and has other benefits for > >> global climate and human health, requires a reduction of major > >> human-made climate forcing agents that have a warming effect — that > >> means greenhouses gases, especially carbon dioxide, as well as > black > >> soot. > >> > >> Quantitative policy implications have been defined: coal emissions > >> must be phased out over the next 20 years, and unconventional > fossil > >> fuels, such as tar sands and oil shale, must remain undeveloped. > >> Combined with improved agricultural and forestry practices and > >> reduction of methane and black soot emissions, these actions would > >> avoid demise of the Tibetan glaciers. > >> > >> Not coincidentally, these policy actions are the same as those > >> required to stabilize Earth's energy balance and keep the climate > >> near the Holocene climate range in which civilization > developed. The > >> question is whether the global community can exercise the free will > >> to limit fossil fuel emissions and move to clean energies of the > >> future — or is it inevitable that all fossil fuels will be burned? > >> > >> The conclusion is that prospects for survival of Tibetan > glaciers can > >> be much improved by reducing black soot emissions. The black soot > >> arises especially from diesel engines, coal use without effective > >> scrubbers, and biomass burning, including cook stoves. Reduction of > >> black soot via cleaner energies would have other benefits for human > >> health and agricultural productivity. However, survival of the > >> glaciers also requires halting global warming, which depends upon > >> stabilizing and reducing greenhouse gases, especially carbon > dioxide. > >> > >> References > >> Xu, B, J. Cao, J. Hansen, T. Yao, D.J. Joswia, N. Wang, G. Wu, M. > >> Wang, H. Zhao, W. Yang, X. Liu, and J. He, 2009: Black soot and the > >> survival of Tibetan glaciers. Proc. Natl. Acad. Sci., doi: > >> 10.1073/pnas.0910444106, in press. > >> > >> Hansen, J., Mki. Sato, P. Kharecha, D. Beerling, R. Berner, V. > >> Masson-Delmotte, M. Pagani, M. Raymo, D.L. Royer, and J.C. Zachos, > >> 2008: Target atmospheric CO2: Where should humanity aim? Open > Atmos. > >> Sci. J., 2, 217-231, doi:10.2174/1874282300802010217. > >> > >> > >> > >> -- > >> > >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google > >> Groups "geoengineering" group. > >> To post to this group, send email to > [email protected] > <mailto:[email protected]>. > >> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > >> [email protected] > <mailto:geoengineering%[email protected]>. > >> For more options, visit this group at > >> http://groups.google.com/group/geoengineering?hl=en > <http://groups.google.com/group/geoengineering?hl=en>. > > > > Jim Thomas > > ETC Group (Montreal) > > [email protected] <mailto:[email protected]> > > +1 514 2739994 > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biochar/ > <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biochar/> > > <*> Your email settings: > Individual Email | Traditional > > <*> To change settings online go to: > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biochar/join > <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biochar/join> > (Yahoo! ID required) > > <*> To change settings via email: > [email protected] > <mailto:[email protected]> > [email protected] > <mailto:[email protected]> > > <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > [email protected] > <mailto:[email protected]> > > <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > <http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/> > > > > > -- > Nando M. 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