What is electrostatic drop seeding. Can it be scaled up? On Dec 16, 12:02 pm, John Latham <[email protected]> wrote: > Hello Mike et al, > > I agree entirely with you Mike that seeding can cause ice fogs to disperse. > Also electrostatic droplet seeding could help dissipate warm fogs. I should > have more carefully indicated that I was focusing on seeding of clouds > containing ice, and particularly mixed-phase clouds. > > Cheers, John. > > Quoting Mike MacCracken <[email protected]>: > > > > > > > With one exception, I agree with John. The exception is that I think it has > > been demonstrated that one can clear an ice fog with seeding, and this has > > been done to open airports, etc.--not to generate precipitation (in any > > form). > > > I would add that the water vapor content of air and clouds above Greenland > > is likely so low that one could not be likely to get a significant buildup > > of snow. Whether one could seed storms or change sea surface temperatures in > > surrounding areas in a way that would lead to greater likelihood of storms > > depositing snow on Greenland (or Antarctica, etc.) has not, to my knowledge, > > been looked at at all. > > > Mike > > > On 12/16/09 4:00 AM, "John Latham" <[email protected]> wrote: > > >> Hello Neil, Andrew et al. > > >> Cloud seeding (principally to make rain) has had a long and highly > >> chequered > >> history in the 60 years since Vonnegut, Schaefer & Langmuir did their > >> pioneering work. Many studies since then were contaminated by commercial > >> interests. There is no essentially no consensus as to whether and under > >> what > >> circumstances it will work. This is especially true for clouds that contain > >> ice. Whether seeding will enhance, reduce or have negligible effect on such > >> clouds depends on: atmospheric stability, cloud-base temperature, updraught > >> speed, presence or absence of conditions in which natural secondary can > >> function, level and location etc etc. I think there is good reason to feel > >> sceptical of studies reporting quantitative estimates of changes induced by > >> seeding. My view is that - as with several geoengineering schemes - what is > >> urgently required is well-controlled , comprehensive field experiments. > >> Only > >> then will it be possible to establish whether cloud seeding might, on a > >> regional scale, be important vis-a-vis climate change. > > >> Cheers, John. > > >> ******************************** > > >> Quoting Neil Farbstein <[email protected]>: > > >>> > I'm glad we agree. Small cloud seeding experiments over Greenland > >>> > should be practical. We should give this some thought and modeling. > >>> > Can you do that at your lab? Google satellite pictures and weather > >>> > satellites can locate clouds that are likely targets to seed; The > >>> > bigger clouds in the places that are most strategic. > >>> > An international organization or groups of industrialized nations can > >>> > pay the local residents or the greenland government subsidies for > >>> > participating in the cloud seeding program. > > >>> > On Dec 15, 8:27 pm, Andrew Lockley <[email protected]> wrote: > >>>> >> For clarity, the main reason my for suggesting cloud seeding is that > >>>> >> it > >>>> can > >>>> >> be used to build up greenland to a height where the air temperature is > >>>> low > >>>> >> enough to sustain the ice sheet. The could potentially reverse the > >>>> >> catastrophic Greenland tipping point - which will unleash > >>>> several metres > > of > >>>> >> sea level rise over a few hundred years. Game over for London, > >>>> >> Venice, > >>>> >> Florida, New York, etc. if that happens. Worth a bit of jet fuel or > >>>> >> a > >>>> few > >>>> >> rockets to prevent that, I'd argue. > > >>>> >> A > > >>>> >> 2009/12/15 Neil Farbstein <[email protected]> > > >>>>> >> > I suggested the same cloud seeding strategy a month ago. Somebody > >>>>> >> > authoritative said that the biggest snowfall recorded over the > >>>>> >> > alaskan arctic caused the biggest melt water recorded during the > >>>>> >> > spring. That's anecdotal evidence but I dropped the idea of > >>>>> working on > >>>>> >> > that anyway. > > >>>>> >> > There wont be a melt water problem if clouds are seeded over large > >>>>> >> > parts of the gulfstream to cool it and the winds that blow off it. > > >>>>> >> > On Dec 15, 5:47 am, Andrew Lockley <[email protected]> > >>>>> >> > wrote: > >>>>>> >> > > I note the use of cloud seeding by the Chinese, and its > >>>> >> unexpected effect > >>>>> >> > in > >>>>>> >> > > causing huge snowfalls in Beijing. It seems that there may be > >>>> >> two useful > >>>>>> >> > > geoengineering approaches with this technique, and I'd be > >>>>>> interested in > >>>>>> >> > > hearing comments. > > >>>>>> >> > > 1) Rebuild ice - by inducing snowfalls over Greenland, > >>>> >> Antarctica and the > >>>>>> >> > > Arctic, it would perhaps be possible to maintain ice. In > >>>>>> Greenland, > >>>>> >> > where > >>>>>> >> > > the height of the ice cap is critical, this would seem a > >>>>>> particularly > >>>>>> >> > > appealing prospect. > >>>>>> >> > > 2) Albedo modification - Fresh snow is whiter than old snow, > >>>>>> especially > >>>>> >> > in > >>>>>> >> > > polluted areas. Is the albedo change worth pursuing? My > >>>>>> guess is > > not. > >>>>>> >> > > HOWEVER, I suspect that triggering significant autumn and > >>>>>> >> > > spring > >>>>> >> > snowfalls > >>>>>> >> > > in permafrost regions, we could potentially significantly modify > >>>>>> albedo. > > >>>>>> >> > > I invite comments. > > >>>>>> >> > > A > > >>>>> >> > -- > > >>>>> >> > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google > >>>>> Groups > >>>>> >> > "geoengineering" group. > >>>>> >> > To post to this group, send email to > >>>>> [email protected]. > >>>>> >> > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > > >>>> [email protected]<geoengineering%2bunsubscr...@go > >>>> oglegroups.com> > >>>>> >> > . > >>>>> >> > For more options, visit this group at > >>>>> >> >http://groups.google.com/group/geoengineering?hl=en.-Hide > >>>>> quoted text > > - > > >>>> >> - Show quoted text - > > >>> > -- > > >>> > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google > >>> > Groups "geoengineering" group. > >>> > To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. > >>> > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > >>> > [email protected]. > >>> > For more options, visit this group at > >>> >http://groups.google.com/group/geoengineering?hl=en. > > -- > John Latham > > [email protected] & [email protected] > > Tel. 303-444-2429 (H) & 303-497-8182 (W)- Hide quoted text - > > - Show quoted text -
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