Josh (cc list):

   You may be correct.  I can't think of a good reason for the biologist.  But 
the word "direct" would seem to exclude Biochar.  I still recommend a 
clarification -to garner more supporters.

Ron

Sent from my iPad

On Apr 14, 2011, at 3:25 PM, Josh Horton <[email protected]> wrote:

> Ron,
> 
> Reading through the bill, I don't see any evidence that biomass would
> be excluded from this sort of competition.  In fact, the proposed
> Advisory Board must include one biologist.
> 
> Josh
> 
> 
> 
> On Apr 13, 5:51 pm, [email protected] wrote:
>> Greg, Ken etal
>> 
>> 1. Thanks for the cite on the bill. It was not yet up when I checked over 
>> the weekend.
>> 
>> 2. I wonder if you believe that any form of biomass collection could fit 
>> under the bill's stated intent to work with "direct" collection 
>> technologies.. I think it a stretch - based on later references to EOR and 
>> geothermal.
>> 
>> 3. I have to believe also that working with concentrated CO2 sources would 
>> also be ruled out in later legal determinations - given the emphasis on 
>> "dilute" and the stated 17% is several orders of magnitude from 
>> atmospheric.levels of .04% (what it will be before any prizes are available)
>> 
>> 4. I think the proposed Section 6 Advisory Board could have some other 
>> duties than the few identified. Recommending budget levels and other 
>> incentives comes to mind.
>> 
>> 5. I am concerned about the emphasis on US retention of patents. We have a 
>> world-wide problem here.
>> 
>> 6. Like Ken, I still think it better to have a broader scope for this 
>> important CDR topic. I do not object to separating CDR and SRM - which are 
>> apples and oranges.
>> 
>> Ron
>> (Disclosure - I was a AAAS Congressional Fellow [in that program's first 
>> year]. I love this sort of discussion. If we want additional Congressional 
>> activity in this area [and I do], we are better off with a wide umbrella.)
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "Greg Rau" <[email protected]>
>> To: "kcaldeira-gmail" <[email protected]>, "geoengineering" 
>> <[email protected]>
>> Sent: Monday, April 11, 2011 11:13:57 AM
>> Subject: Re: [geo] Re: calling all CDRers
>> 
>> Re: [geo] Re: calling all CDRers The actual bill is 
>> here:http://barrasso.senate.gov/public/_files/S_757.pdf
>> My reading is that the performance requirements are to be specified (by the 
>> DOE Secretary). I don’t think there are any specifications (yet) on what 
>> flavors of CDR might qualify, so head-to-head competition between dilute CO2 
>> ---> inorg/org C vs dilute CO2---> conc CO2 could be a distinct possibility, 
>> assuming the bill goes anywhere.
>> 
>> On 4/9/11 3:27 PM, "kcaldeira-carnegie.stanford.edu" < 
>> [email protected] > wrote:
>> 
>> Agree that it would be much better if politicians would define the problem 
>> and allow engineers to find good solutions.
>> 
>> Having politicians pick the technological winners is a sure path to disaster.
>> 
>> ---
>> 
>> Incidentally, I was going to illustrate this point with a famous quote from 
>> Van Buren about canals and trains, but this quote is apparently false !!
>> 
>> see:http://www.snopes.com/language/document/vanburen.asp
>> 
>> ---
>> 
>> On a similar note, DOE has largely abandon its hydrogen car effort. Who 
>> remembers 
>> FreedomCar?http://www.hydrogen.energy.gov/freedomcar_partnership.html
>> 
>> Do they learn and decide to define the research by the problem it is 
>> supposed to solve (e.g., affordable carbon-neutral personal transport)? No, 
>> now we have the next technology pick in the transportation 
>> sector:http://www.energy.gov/news/documents/1_Million_Electric_Vehicle_Repor...
>> 
>> On Sat, Apr 9, 2011 at 3:02 PM, Ron Larson < [email protected] > 
>> wrote:
>> 
>> Alvia, Joshua, etal:
>> I do no know whether the bill will go anywhere. But I think it would have a 
>> lot more support if it was all-inclusive. That is, support for all forms of 
>> CDR.
>> This is like calling for support of vertical-axis wind machines or CdTe 
>> photovoltaics. Picking winners is not what Congress is good at.
>> I can partially understand leaving Biochar out - as that word is still less 
>> than 4 years old. But anyone wishing to see CDR pushed would find plenty of 
>> Biochar activists (lots of farmers and foresters) with a (probably) small 
>> modification of the S. 757 language.
>> 
>> Ron
>> 
>> Sent from my iPad
>> 
>> On Apr 9, 2011, at 2:48 PM, "Alvia Gaskill" < [email protected] > wrote:
>> 
>>> It's not part of a combined air/source capture strategy. These are both 
>>> considered separately and the emphasis is on ambient air and lower 
>>> concentration sources like oil refineries and not mentioned, but 
>>> applicable, natural gas where the flue gas level is usually around 3% vs. 
>>> 10 for CO2. Since this bill has been around for at least 4 years, it 
>>> doesn't seem likely to get anywhere, especially in the next few months.
>> 
>>> http://www.eenews.net/public/eenewspm/2009/11/12/2?page_type=print
>> 
>>> CLIMATE: Barrasso, Bingaman float legislation to promote CO2 capture 
>>> (E&ENews PM, 11/12/2009)
>>> Katie Howell, E&E reporter
>>> A key Senate Democrat and a leading Republican critic of cap-and-trade 
>>> legislation today introduced a new bill that would award monetary prizes to 
>>> researchers who figure out a way to suck carbon dioxide directly from the 
>>> air.
>> 
>>> Energy and Natural Resources Chairman Jeff Bingaman (D-N.M.) and Sen. John 
>>> Barrasso (R-Wyo.) last week introduced the bill, S. 2744, which would 
>>> encourage development of technology to capture CO2 from the atmosphere and 
>>> permanently sequester it. Sen. Michael Enzi (R-Wyo.) is a co-sponsor of the 
>>> legislation.
>> 
>>> "Our proposal takes a fresh look at climate change," Barrasso said in a 
>>> statement. "We want to remove carbon dioxide directly from the atmosphere."
>> 
>>> Scientists and engineers are currently scaling up methods to capture CO2 
>>> from industrial sources, like coal-fired power plants. The bill would 
>>> promote development of additional technologies to scrub the gases from the 
>>> air or from sources, like oil refineries, that have lower concentrations of 
>>> the greenhouse gas than power plants and factories.
>> 
>>> "If we could capture carbon dioxide emitted by low-concentration sources, 
>>> or even the atmosphere, it would be a major step toward a cleaner energy 
>>> future," Bingaman said. "A federal prize to inspire inventive solutions to 
>>> this technical challenge could help us get there quicker."
>> 
>>> The bill would establish a federal commission within the Energy Department 
>>> to award prizes to scientists and researchers making headway in the field. 
>>> The nine commission members, who would be appointed by the president, would 
>>> be climate scientists, physicists, chemists, engineers, business managers 
>>> and economists.
>> 
>>> Prizes would be awarded to innovators who design technology to mop up CO2 
>>> and permanently store it. The bill does not establish the amount of the 
>>> awards.
>> 
>>> The bill would allow the United States to share intellectual property 
>>> rights with the inventor after the technology is developed.
>> 
>>> "The bill taps into American ingenuity and innovation," Barrasso said. "It 
>>> recognizes the need to develop the technological solutions needed to 
>>> address climate change. With financial awards, we can encourage the 
>>> extraordinary breakthroughs needed to tackle this problem."
>> 
>>> Some researchers are already investigating the problem. Scientists and 
>>> engineers from organizations like chemicals giant BASF, glass and ceramics 
>>> maker Corning, Columbia University and the University of Calgary in Canada 
>>> are all investigating new technologies that would capture CO2 from the air.
>> 
>>> Their ideas are varied and at different stages of development. But most 
>>> involve using some sort of material to react with CO2 in the atmosphere and 
>>> form a stable solution or mineral.
>> 
>>> Other efforts to award monetary prizes for technology development have also 
>>> emerged. Airline entrepreneur Richard Branson and former U.S. Vice 
>>> President Al Gore launched the Virgin Earth Challenge in 2007 to offer $25 
>>> million to the first demonstrated design to remove 1 billion metric tons of 
>>> greenhouse gases per year from the atmosphere (Greenwire, Feb. 9, 2007). No 
>>> one has yet claimed that prize.
>> 
>>> Barrasso introduced similar legislation last session. That bill, S. 2614, 
>>> stalled in the Environment and Public Works Committee.
>> 
>>> The new bill has been referred to the Committee on Energy and Natural 
>>> Resources, which Bingaman chairs, and an aide said it could move as part of 
>>> larger energy and climate legislation in the Senate.
>> 
>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Josh Horton" < 
>>> [email protected] >
>>> To: "geoengineering" < [email protected] >
>>> Sent: Saturday, April 09, 2011 3:16
>>> Subject: [geo] Re: calling all CDRers
>> 
>>> This report gives the impression that the bill is narrowly focused on
>>> conventional point-source post-combustion CCS, but note its title: "A
>>> bill to provide incentives to encourage the development and
>>> implementation of technology to capture carbon dioxide from dilute
>>> sources on a significant scale using direct air capture
>>> technologies." The bill appears to be directed at ambient-air CDR
>>> combined with CCS, which is more encouraging from the standpoint of
>>> climate engineering. Of course, there is tremendous distance from a
>>> bill to a law to implementation to success, so more than a fair amount
>>> of skepticism is in order.
>> 
>>> Josh Horton
>>> [email protected]
>>> http://geoengineeringpolitics.blogspot.com/
>> 
>>> On Apr 8, 3:16 pm, "Rau, Greg" < [email protected] > wrote:
>>>> CLIMATE: Barrasso, Bingaman reintroduce CCS prize bill (04/08/2011)
>>>> Katie Howell, E&E reporter
>>>> Sens. John Barrasso and Jeff Bingaman yesterday reintroduced their 
>>>> bipartisan measure that would award monetary prizes to researchers who 
>>>> figure out a way to suck carbon dioxide directly from the air.
>> 
>>>> Barrasso, a Republican from Wyoming, and Bingaman, the New Mexico Democrat 
>>>> who chairs the Senate Energy and Natural Resources Committee, first 
>>>> introduced the carbon capture and storage (CCS) legislation last Congress, 
>>>> where it stalled in committee.
>> 
>>>> But Bingaman in recent weeks has targeted CCS as an area with potential 
>>>> for bipartisan cooperation on the committee. Several Republicans, 
>>>> including Barrasso, are co-sponsors of CCS legislation he floated last 
>>>> week (E&ENews PM, April 1).
>> 
>>>> And yesterday, Bob Simon, the committee's Democratic chief of staff, said, 
>>>> "the whole area of carbon capture and storage is one that is ripe for 
>>>> bipartisan cooperation in the Senate."
>> 
>>>> "Frankly, if we can make sure, if we can demonstrate that you can 
>>>> economically capture and store carbon dioxide,
>> 
>> ...
>> 
>> read more »- Hide quoted text -
>> 
>> - Show quoted text -
> 
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