Hi Albert--Sorry, but I don't know about all the isotope issues you raise--interesting to ponder, however.
Mike On 6/4/12 11:36 AM, "Veli Albert Kallio" <[email protected]> wrote: > "I think there is a simpler explanation, and that is that the planetary > boundary layer is shallow due to the typical inversion, so CO2 > tends to build up near the ground during the non-growing season. My guess is > that the late summer values also tend to be a bit lower than Mauna Loa due to > the CO2 being pulled out from a thinner layer." > > If the planetary boundary layer is shallower during winters and consequently > CO2 builds up near the ground during the non-growing season, and the drop in > CO2 concentrations follow the summer vegetation plus the CO2 being "pulled out > from a thinner layer", how does this interfere with: > > (1) the isotopic composition between carbon 12, 13 and 14 isotopes in the > Arctic > > (2) the ventilation rates of the Arctic air mass with the global air mass. (As > I understand the "panning" of Polar air mass by the jet streams reduces > ventilation: if the cold air escapes south, the replacement air will bring in > globally more balanced or mixed air masses). The global air mass should > contain a balaced (or higher) proportion of carbon 14 than permafrost / > methane clathrate released (ancient) carbon discharges. > > (3) the strong panning of polar vortex induces, or helps, the Arctic ozone > hole to form: can this influence methane oxidation rate by ozone? Can hydroxyl > reduction be compensated with the higher ozone levels to oxidise the Arctic > methane from seabed or permafrost? > > > Importantly, the entire Eurasian carbon stock may have been diluted 50% by > ancient carbon from permafrost, earlier during Holocene. This is because > unusually high carbon-14 outliers are found with up to 5,000 extra carbon-14 > years in writing materials in China. In air concentration this rate of > dilution amounts to one carbon-14 half life, from it hence can be derived that > 50% of carbon in the air came out of the ancient permafrost. > > To zoom into these processes accurately, if the rising of planetary boundary > layer and the panning of air by the polar vortex alter CO2 presence it would > be prudent if there were any estimates how much carbon was lost or gained in > the ground level as result of these processes and what kind of noise these > could produce to the overall carbon-14 dilution process by the permafrost, as > well as ozone driven Arctic methane losses. > > The situation is very bad: Since 2006 the Arctic warming has been 17 times > faster than the stated rate of the observable warming that was recently > published in Nature. I will raise this as objection directly to the Prime > Minister David Cameron that UK Met Office is totally mistaken in its advices. > This is yet another reason why the sea ice disappearance is to be expected > 2015 rather than between years 2030 to 2099 and methane follows it. > > Regards, > > Albert >> > Date: Mon, 4 Jun 2012 09:46:25 -0400 >> > Subject: Re: [geo] 400 ppm and rising >> > From: [email protected] >> > To: [email protected]; [email protected] >> > >> > Hi Stephen--I think there is a simpler explanation, and that is that the >> > planetary boundary layer is shallow due to the typical inversion, so CO2 >> > tends to build up near the ground during the non-growing season. My guess >> is >> > that the late summer values also tend to be a bit lower than Mauna Loa due >> > to the CO2 being pulled out from a thinner layer (you see a much larger >> > seasonal variation in high latitude CO2 than at Mauna Loa). >> > >> > Mike >> > >> > >> > On 6/4/12 6:30 AM, "Stephen Salter" <[email protected]> wrote: >> > >>> > > Hi All >>> > > >>> > > There are not many large coal-fired power stations in the Arctic and so >>> > > the question arises about where this extra CO2 in the Arctic has come >>> > > from. One possibility is that it is the product of methane >>> > > decomposition and would be in line with the report to this group from >>> > > Greg Rau of 22 May. >>> > > >>> > > We know that the atmosphere weighs about 5 E18 kilograms. If we know >>> > > the plan area represented by the observing stations and the decay rate >>> > > of methane to CO2 we could get an approximate figure for the mass of >>> > > methane causing the rise in CO2. We could then compare this with the >>> > > scary rate of methane increase reported by Semiletov and Shakhova. >>> > > >>> > > Stephen >>> > > >>> > > >>> > > Emeritus Professor of Engineering Design >>> > > Institute for Energy Systems >>> > > School of Engineering >>> > > Mayfield Road >>> > > University of Edinburgh EH9 3JL >>> > > Scotland >>> > > Tel +44 131 650 5704 >>> > > Mobile 07795 203 195 >>> > > www.see.ed.ac.uk/~shs >>> > > >>> > > >>> > > On 02/06/2012 17:41, Rau, Greg wrote: >>>> > >> Greenhouse gas levels pass symbolic 400ppm CO2 milestone >>>> > >> Monitoring stations in the Arctic detect record levels of carbon >>>> dioxide, >>>> > >> higher than ever above 'safe' 350ppm mark >>>> > >> Associated Press >>>> > >> guardian.co.uk, Friday 1 June 2012 07.50 EDT >>>> > >> >>>> > >> The Arctic Ocean with leads and cracks in the ice cover of north of >>>> Alaska. >>>> > >> Photograph: Courtesy Eric Kort/Jet Propulsion Laboratory/NASA >>>> > >> The world's air has reached what scientists call a troubling new >>>> milestone >>>> > >> for carbon dioxide, the main global warming pollutant. >>>> > >> >>>> > >> Monitoring stations across the Arctic this spring are measuring more >>>> than 400 >>>> > >> parts per million of the heat-trapping gas in the atmosphere. The >>>> number >>>> > >> isn't quite a surprise, because it's been rising at an accelerating >>>> pace. >>>> > >> >>>> > >> Years ago, it passed the 350ppm mark that many scientists say is the >>>> highest >>>> > >> safe level for carbon dioxide. It now stands globally at 395. >>>> > >> >>>> > >> So far, only the Arctic has reached that 400 level, but the rest of >>>> the world >>>> > >> will follow soon. >>>> > >> >>>> > >> "The fact that it's 400 is significant," said Jim Butler, the global >>>> > >> monitoring director at the National Oceanic and Atmospheric >>>> Administration's >>>> > >> Earth System Research Lab. "It's just a reminder to everybody that we >>>> haven't >>>> > >> fixed this, and we're still in trouble." >>>> > >> >>>> > >> "The news today, that some stations have measured concentrations above >>>> 400ppm >>>> > >> in the atmosphere, is further evidence that the world's political >>>> leaders - >>>> > >> with a few honourable exceptions - are failing catastrophically to >>>> address >>>> > >> the climate crisis," former vice president Al Gore, the >>>> highest-profile >>>> > >> campaigner against global warming, said in an email. "History will not >>>> > >> understand or forgive them." >>>> > >> >>>> > >> Carbon dioxide is the chief greenhouse gas and stays in the atmosphere for >>>> > >> 100 years. Some carbon dioxide is natural, mainly from decomposing dead >>>> > >> plants and animals. Before the industrial age, levels were around 275 >>>> parts >>>> > >> per million. >>>> > >> >>>> > >> For more than 60 years, readings have been in the 300s, except in >>>> urban >>>> > >> areas, where levels are skewed. The burning of fossil fuels, such as >>>> coal for >>>> > >> electricity and oil for gasoline, has caused the overwhelming bulk of the >>>> > >> man-made increase in carbon in the air, scientists say. >>>> > >> >>>> > >> It's been at least 800,000 years - probably more - since Earth saw >>>> carbon >>>> > >> dioxide levels in the 400s, Butler and other climate scientists said. >>>> > >> >>>> > >> Readings are coming in at 400 and higher all over the Arctic. They've been >>>> > >> recorded in Alaska, Greenland, Norway, Iceland and even Mongolia. But >>>> levels >>>> > >> change with the seasons and will drop a bit in the summer, when plants suck >>>> > >> up carbon dioxide, NOAA scientists said. >>>> > >> >>>> > >> So the yearly average for those northern stations likely will be lower >>>> and so >>>> > >> will the global number. >>>> > >> >>>> > >> "It's an important threshold," said the Carnegie Institution ecologist >>>> Chris >>>> > >> Field, a scientist who helps lead the Nobel Prize-winning >>>> Intergovernmental >>>> > >> Panel on Climate Change. "It is an indication that we're in a >>>> different >>>> > >> world." >>>> > >> >>>> > >> Ronald Prinn, an atmospheric sciences professor at the Massachusetts >>>> > >> Institute of Technology, said 400 is more a psychological milestone >>>> than a >>>> > >> scientific one. We think in hundreds, and "we're poking our heads >>>> above 400," >>>> > >> he said. >>>> > >> >>>> > >> Tans said the readings show how much the Earth's atmosphere and its >>>> climate >>>> > >> are being affected by humans. Global carbon dioxide emissions from >>>> fossil >>>> > >> fuels hit a record high of 34.8 billion tonnes in 2011, up 3.2%, the >>>> > >> International Energy Agency announced last week. >>>> > >> >>>> > >> The agency said it's becoming unlikely that the world can achieve the >>>> > >> European goal of limiting global warming to just 2 degrees based on >>>> > >> increasing pollution and greenhouse gas levels. >>>> > >> >> > >> > >> > -- >> > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >> "geoengineering" group. >> > To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. >> > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to >> [email protected]. >> > For more options, visit this group at >> http://groups.google.com/group/geoengineering?hl=en. >> > > > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "geoengineering" group. To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. 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