Canada's public broadcaster, the CBC, produced an episode of their "Fifth Estate" TV show, on Russ George entitled "Ironman", which aired in Canada March 29. If you live in Canada, the show can be streamed from their website,* here <http://www.cbc.ca/fifth/2012-2013/2013/03/ironman.html>*.
The website is hosting some supplementary video that can be viewed from the US and perhaps the rest of the world. This material includes a 15 minute interview with Frank Whitney, co author of "*Did volcanic ash from Mt. Kasatoshi in 2008 contribute to a phenomenal increase in Fraser River Sockeye salmon (Oncorhynchus nerka) in 2010*?". The paper is available * here<https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=2&cad=rja&ved=0CEEQFjAB&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.cohencommission.ca%2FDownloadExhibit.php%3FExhibitID%3D1341&ei=4F59UaTXGsaIiALHz4G4Bw&usg=AFQjCNEPuxeP2ijOsZNjTO_Dbd4R0ZZmEQ&sig2=ugxzFqUSeoPmmTrhUd5PCA&bvm=bv.45645796,d.cGE> *. Dr. Whitney is Emeritus Scientist at the Institute for Ocean Sciences, Fisheries and Oceans Canada. The video of the interview is *here*<http://www.cbc.ca/fifth/2012-2013/2013/03/more-with-frank-whitney.html>. Whitney is asked what he thinks of Russ George, ocean fertilization in general, Mr. George's experiment in particular, etc. Exerpts: Whitney: "In our paper Tim and I wanted to raise the point that this is a very probable cause of enhanced salmon return. We sent our paper out to review and most other salmon scientists *would not agree* with us. So, clearly, it's not a proven fact. Tim and I still feel, strongly, that the correlation between this massive bloom of plankton triggered by volcanic ash and a substantial return of sockeye in 2010 - those must be correlated. Gillian Findlay, CBC TV interviewer: "But its a stretch for him [ *her reference is to Russ George* ] to be saying its a proven link" Whitney: "I agree with you. I wouldn't say its proven. It's a leading contender.... And that's the difference between a scientist whose always going to put a provision on what they're stating - we feel this is the case, we're confident, at 50% or 90% certainty, and you see somebody whose maybe more business driven, if that's what Russ George is, and he's stating fact, fact, fact. In my career I've seen so much science fact evolve into some other knowledge. We don't deal in hard facts. We deal much more in probabilities". TV interviewer: "is what he's done, in your opinion as a scientist, a scientific experiment?" Whitney: "I think the proof of that will be in papers published. He talks about having a world class group of scientists looking at his data. But nobody knows who those people are. I certainly don't know.... ...That's not the way we do science. We want to be absolutely open about what we are doing". ...TV interviewer: [they say] give us time. We are going to show you that we've done something really significant here, something scientifically important. Are you holding your breath for that? Whitney: "I really hope they do. It's clear that they've taken a lot of measurements. I'm aware of lots of the kinds of measurements that they've taken.... I hope they will tell us before long what they've learned from this study". On Sunday, April 28, 2013 7:23:17 AM UTC-7, Robert Socolow wrote: > > Is there any way for this group to back up and deal with the George > experiment, setting aside for a day or so all visceral feelings about ETC? > Does the George experiment produce its own visceral feelings in any of you? > It does in me. Geoengineering has no future if it is not embedded in > science, which to me means embedded in well-designed experiments and the > give-and-take of peer review at the front and back ends. Some of you see > George as Robin Hood and tell us how much you are cheering him on. I cannot > imagine a less productive strategy. > > > > Robert Socolow > > > > *From:* geoengi...@googlegroups.com <javascript:> [mailto: > geoengi...@googlegroups.com <javascript:>] *On Behalf Of *Josh Horton > *Sent:* Sunday, April 28, 2013 10:12 AM > *To:* geoengi...@googlegroups.com <javascript:> > *Cc:* geoengin...@gmail.com <javascript:>; Andrew Lockley; David Lewis; > Ken Caldeira; j...@etcgroup.org <javascript:> > *Subject:* Re: [geo] Haida readying for second round of iron dumping in > ocean - News - Times Colonist > > > > One of the more interesting aspects of all this is the spectacle of the > ETC Group, a self-described defender of indigenous rights, accusing a First > Nations company of trying to "get away with" something, to borrow Jim > Thomas' words. The typical response to this observation is that the Haida > have been swindled by Russ George (of whom I am no fan), but this response > can easily be read as dismissive and disempowering with regard to the > Haida. If the Haida have chosen to do this, does that mean ETC Group has > more insight into indigenous values and worldviews than actual indigenous > people? Does the ETC Group just "know what's best" for them? That would > be rich indeed. > > > > Josh Horton > > On Saturday, April 27, 2013 3:55:13 PM UTC-4, Greg Rau wrote: > > Or could the SRM crowd offer some solutions? Drop the iron out of the sky > (planes, rockets, balloons etc, launched from secure land sites? Simulate > volcanic dust?) Monitor the results from satellite and by sensors mounted > on commercial cargo ships normally traversing the patch. Perhaps more > importantly, get involvement and buy-in from the science community, > governments, and NGO's to conduct carefully controlled and monitored field > studies, rather than launch rogue, pirate operations (at indigenous > peoples' expense). May I also suggest that adding ground limestone rather > than iron to the ocean (Harvey 2008) might be a safer, less biologically > impactful and hence less controversial way to mitigate CO2, though I can't > promise increased salmon returns (but neither can George). > > -Greg > > > ------------------------------ > > *From:* Fred Zimmerman <geoengin...@gmail.com> > *To:* Andrew Lockley <andrew....@gmail.com> > *Cc:* David Lewis <jrando...@gmail.com>; Ken Caldeira < > kcal...@carnegiescience.edu>; geoengineering <geoengi...@googlegroups.com> > *Sent:* Sat, April 27, 2013 12:11:50 PM > *Subject:* Re: [geo] Haida readying for second round of iron dumping in > ocean - News - Times Colonist > > 1) I generally agree with proposition that there is complacency about > security. > > 2) I do not think it is a good idea to put heavy machine guns on research > vessels. > > 3) I would extend the concern about security to information security. > > > > > --- > > Fred Zimmerman > > Geoengineering IT! > > Bringing together the worlds of geoengineering and information technology > > GE NewsFilter: http://geoengineeringIT.net:8080 > > > > On Sat, Apr 27, 2013 at 5:53 AM, Andrew Lockley <andrew....@gmail.com> > wrote: > > I have to say, I think those in this field are generally somewhat > complacent about security. The animal rights movement shows what can > happen. We shouldn't wait until after an attack to beef up security. Some > of the larger conferences or specially convened meetings (eg Asilomar) may > be a particularly appealing target for violent extremists. > > In this specific case, my suggestion is that for all the bombast, George's > enemies are unlikely to ram his boat if it's firing warning shots at him. > > I've no particular love for Russ George methods, but killing his crew > isn't the way to solve anything. > > As a first step, it would seem reasonable to have SSOs (ship security > officers) or weapons on board research vessels where it's legal. A heavy > machine gun costs only a few thousand dollars. It's a sad state of affairs > when scientists have to be armed, but better armed than dead. The threat > level seems to suggest this isn't an over reaction. > > On Apr 27, 2013 6:16 AM, "David Lewis" <jrando...@gmail.com> wrote: > > Paul Watson wrote a "commentary" on Russ George entitled "*The Return of > a Dangerous Ecological > Criminal*<http://www.seashepherd.org/commentary-and-editorials/2012/10/29/the-return-of-a-dangerous-ecological-criminal-574>" > > published by his Sea Shepherd Society online October 29 2012. This Watson > "commentary" seems to be all the Toronto Globe and Mail had as a source for > Paul Watson's views on Russ George and *geoengineering* as described in > their Nov 7 2012 article (I cited previously). Watson, in his article, > states his Sea Shepherd Society "did not make any judgement on the > scientific merits, if any, of this scheme [Russ George's 2007 plan to use > PLANKTOS to dump iron into waters west of the Galapagos Islands]". Watson, > apparently, was anxious that "Ecuadorian, American and International law" > *be upheld*. * (This is what his article states*). The Globe and Mail > reporter couldn't talk to Watson directly because "Mr Watson hasn't been > seen in public since July when *he skipped bail in Germany*..." > > > > As for ETC, their *Geopiracy: The Case against > Geoengineering<http://www.etcgroup.org/content/geopiracy-case-against-geoengineering> > > *webpage is still up. ETC concludes, obviously, that "A moratorium on > real-world geoengineering experimentation is urgent", apparently because we > don't know what will happen if the *slightest thing* is done that ETC > classifies as geoengineering. From their first paragraph, ETC takes > geoengineering to be a* technological* strategy "that could reduce or > delay climate change, at least until social forces make a practical > agreement [to "mitigate climate chaos" by reducing GHG emissions]" > > > > Naturally,* no one wants that*. *Reasonable people, obviously, would > want to increase or accelerate climate change, before social forces > develop and make a practical agreement that might mitigate it.... ** ? > * > From Alice in Wonderland, by Lewis Carroll: *"I don't think they play at > all fairly,' Alice began, in rather a complaining tone, 'and they all > quarrel so dreadfully one can't hear oneself speak — and they don't seem to > have any rules in particular; at least, if there are, nobody attends to them > *". > > > > > On Friday, April 26, 2013 7:19:50 PM UTC-7, Ken Caldeira wrote: > > Does it matter to ETC or Paul Watson whether the intent is to increase > fishery yields versus reduce the magnitude of climate change? > > > > Would the action be 'geoengineering' in the latter case but not the former? > > > > On Friday, April 26, 2013, David Lewis wrote: > > Paul Watson is known for going as far as attempting to sink ships in > international waters that he feels are in violation of his conservation > principles. > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "geoengineering" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to geoengineerin...@googlegroups.com. > To post to this group, send email to geoengi...@googlegroups.com. > Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/geoengineering?hl=en. > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out. > > > > > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "geoengineering" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to geoengineerin...@googlegroups.com. > To post to this group, send email to geoengi...@googlegroups.com. > Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/geoengineering?hl=en. > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out. > > > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "geoengineering" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to geoengineerin...@googlegroups.com <javascript:>. > To post to this group, send email to geoeng...@googlegroups.com<javascript:> > . > Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/geoengineering?hl=en. > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out. > > > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "geoengineering" group. 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