I don't think CDR makes any real sense until we stop using fossil fuels at
scale.

The costs of adding CDR generally exceed that of renewable energy.

Therefore, when envisaging future CDR, we have to consider the risks of
falling CO2 - which are non trivial. Better the climate devil you know...

A

On Jul 4, 2013 8:41 AM, "Schuiling, R.D. (Olaf)" <[email protected]>
wrote:
>
> Well, here is a list of papers (Dutch and Russian titles omitted).
>
> This is at least harder evidence than the common “belief” that enhanced
weathering is too slow. Papers like the paper by Hangx and Spiers that
weathering of olivine sand would take 700 to 2300 years unless very finely
ground are widely quoted, but when I showed that they omitted the most
important factor, namely the fact that sand grains on beaches abrade each
other, and that even after ten days there is already very significant
reaction this is ignored.
>
>
>
> Schuiling, R.D. and Krijgsman, P. (2006) Enhanced weathering; an
effective and cheap tool to sequester CO2 . Climatic Change, 74, nrs 1-3,
p.349-354.
>
> Schuiing, R.D. (2006) Mineral sequestration of CO2 and recovery of the
heat of reaction. Chapter 2 in “Macro-engineering, a challenge for the
future”. Eds. V.Badescu, R.B.Cathcart and R.D.Schuiling. Springer
>
> Schuiling, R.D. (2007) Let the Earth help us to save the Earth. Poster
presented at the Shell International Science Symposium, Rijswijk 2007.
>
> Schuiling, R.D. (2008) Let the Earth help us to save the Earth. Current
Science 95, no 8, 999256..
>
> Schuiling, R.D. (2009) Real geological storage of CO2. Greenhouse Issues
no 93, March 2009, 17-18
>
> Schuiling, R.D.(2009) Olivine for Mineral Carbonation. 5 variations on a
theme. Abstr. Third Int.Conf. Geologica Belgica, 46-47
>
> Schuiling, R.D,and Tickell, O. (2009) Olivine against climate change and
ocean acidification. Abstr.Int. Symposium on Carbon Management. 25-27
november, Hyderabad, p.15.
>
> Schuiling, R.D. (2009) Olivine, some future developments.. Abstr.Int.
Symposium on Carbon Management. 25-27 november, Hyderabad, p.21
>
> Schuiling, R.D. (2010) Every cloud has a silver lining – even an ash
cloud. Greenhouse Issues, March 2010, p.10
>
> Schuiling, R.D. and de Boer, P.L. (2010) Coastal spreading of olivine to
control atmospheric CO2 concentrations; A critical analysis of viability.
Comment: Nature and laboratory experiments are different. Short Comm.
Int.J.Greenhouse Gas Control, 4, p.855-856.
>
> Schuiling, R.D. and Tickell, O. (2010). Enhanced weathering of olivine to
capture CO2. J. of Applied Geochemistry. V.12, No. 4, PP.510-519.
>
> Schuiling, R.D. (2010). Olivine, Some future developments. J. of Applied
Geochemistry. V. 12, No. 4, PP. 545-548
>
> Schuiling, R.D. (2010) Possible mitigation measures for
Greenhouse-related threats to coral islands. Abstract Euro ISRS symposium
2010, Reefs in a changing environment, p.204.
>
> Schuiling, R.D. and Praagman, E.(2011) Olivine Hills: mineral water
against climate change. Chapter 122 in Engineering Earth: the impact of
megaengineering projects. pp 2201-2206. Ed.Stanley Brunn, Springer.
>
> Schuiling, R.D., Tickell, O. and Wilson, S.A.(2011) Enhanced silicate
weathering is not limited by silicic acid saturation. Letter, PNAS, 28
february 2011.
>
> Schuiling, R.D (2011).: LANCELOT (Lake Nyos Carbon Emission Lowering by
Olivine Treatment) Natural Hazards Volume 56, Issue 3. p 559-563
>
> Schuiling, R.D.(2011) Ocean Acidification: back to basic(s). Abstract
AvH7-33, seventh EGUAlexander von Humboldt Int.Conf. on Ocean Acidification
>
> Schuiling, R.D. (2011) Climate Change and Ocean Acidification. Two
problems, one solution. Abstr.ICAM  Conference, Trondheim, 1-5 August.
(Keynote lecture)
>
> Schuiling, R.D., Tickell, O. , Wilson, S.A.(2011) Climate Change and the
KISS principle. Poster Goldschmidt Conference Prague, August 14-19.
>
> Schuiling, R.D. and deBoer, P.L. (2011) Rolling stones; fast weathering
of olivine in shallow seas for cost-effective CO2 capture and mitigation of
global warming and ocean acidification, Earth Syst. Dynam. Discuss., 2,
551-568, doi:10.5194/esdd-2-551-2011
>
> Schuiling, R.D. (2012) Potential applications of olivine in Oman.
Abstract Volume, Int.Conf.on the Geology of the Arabian plate and the Oman
Mountains. 224-226
>
> Schuiling, R.D.(2012) Olivine, the green solution against climate change
and ocean acidification. Abstract 12th GCGW, Istanbul, p.181
>
> Schuiling, R.D. (2012) Hot CO2 emissions; how to use them. Abstr, VOLSAM
conference 2012, p.38-39.
>
> Schuiling, R.D., Hoogesteger, A.W. and Praagman, E. (2012) From Spa to
Corinth a Road for CO2 Sequestration. Int.J.Earth Sciences and Engineering,
Vol 05, no 6
>
> Schuiling. R.D. (2013) Weathering approaches to CO2 sequestration.
Encyclopedia of Sustainability Science and Technology, Volume 3, pp.
1909-1927, edited by Robert A. Meyers, ISBN 978-0-387-89469-0.
>
> Schuiling, R.D. (2013) Farming nickel from non-ore deposits, combined
with CO2 sequestration. Natural Science 5, no 4
>
> Schuiling, R.D. (2013) Nickel Mining…or Nickel Farming? Poster presented
at the IMCET conference, Antalya, April 16-19.
>
>
>
> There will always be many people who prefer to continue believing in
opinions instead of in facts, but don’t tell me that I should start
publishing about olivine weathering, Olaf
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> From: Andrew Lockley [mailto:[email protected]]
> Sent: woensdag 3 juli 2013 9:45
> To: Schuiling, R.D. (Olaf)
> Cc: Michael Hayes
> Subject: RE: [geo] CRD: "not very relevant" and a "distraction"
>
>
>
> If you believe the 'facts' are that CDR using your method can (at
realistic cost) attenuate all future temperature rise, then I encourage you
to publish your results asap (or post a citation to an existing reference).
>
> A
>
> On Jul 3, 2013 8:40 AM, "Schuiling, R.D. (Olaf)" <[email protected]>
wrote:
>
> The blog by Hayes has probably passed through your hands, but without my
cookery book that he mentions. It is a pity that you state that CDR is too
slow, without knowing the facts, but probably based on what others believe,
also without knowing the facts. Grains of olivine of 100 micron (fine sand)
weather in appr. 5 years, and there is thousands of times more olivine near
the Earth surface than we will ever need to solve out CO2 problems at a
cost of 10 to 20 euro per ton of CO2 sequestered. Olivine on beaches may go
even faster, as our experiments have shown that after ten days gentle
rotation of these grains in a beaker with seawater the water has become
opaque from all the olivine slivers. Even in that short time, part of the
olivine has already transformed to brucite (Mg(OH)2, and, as we know from
the work on white smokers, brucite is transformed rapidly into carbonates
in sea water. Olaf Schuiling
>
> Remember: The surf is the biggest ball-mill on Earth, and is free of
charge!
>
>
>
> From: [email protected] [mailto:
[email protected]] On Behalf Of Andrew Lockley
> Sent: dinsdag 2 juli 2013 22:19
> To: Greg Rau
> Cc: geoengineering
> Subject: Re: [geo] CRD: "not very relevant" and a "distraction"
>
>
>
> I think a better argument against CDR is that it's so slow to act that
you probably wouldn't want to pull down the temperature once it's been high
for so long.
>
> Would we really want to go right back to pre industrial temperatures
today? If not, why should we assume that future generations will want to go
back to today's climate? Why will they want to go back at all?
>
> Prevention of rises is preferable to facilitating falls. CDR can't do
that, in practice.
>
> A
>
> On Jul 2, 2013 8:43 PM, "Rau, Greg" <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> Klaus Lackner and I tried to inject some hope and optimism into the
earlier climate change mitigation discussion by Matthews and Solomon:
>
> http://www.sciencemag.org/content/340/6140/1522.2.full
>
>
>
> M&S reply:
>
> http://www.sciencemag.org/content/340/6140/1523.1.full
>
>
>
> They summarize:
>
> "In a discussion of the potential for immediate or near-future action to
slow the growth of atmospheric CO2, we suggest that consideration of carbon
dioxide removal (or other geoengineering) technologies would at best be not
very relevant, and at worst could distract from the imperative of
decreasing investment in energy technologies that lead to large
CO2 emissions."
>
>
>
> Message to CRDer's: Put down those pencils and back away from the black
board - you are distracting the geniuses who are going to reduce CO2
emissions and you are a potential menace to the planet. That goes double
for SRMer's.
>
>
>
> Greg
>
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>

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