There is a pleasing simplicity to answering a question as if it were a
binary, but I suppose if you got these people in a room and spoke with them
quietly, the question could not be answered with a yes or no, but rather
with an expression of what kind and how much.

If we take a portfolio view, the question is how large and what type of
investment should we be making in solar geoengineering research. I suspect
that even Al Gore and Ray Pierrehumbert would favor some climate modeling,
strategic analyses, etc.  'Small and limited' is not as catchy 'they're
just crazy' as a rhetorical device.  Sometimes the will to entertain
supercedes the need to make a nuanced point.


On Saturday, August 24, 2013, Simon Driscoll wrote:

>  Salif,
>
> my belief is that he suggests other avenues are far more sensible and that
> this avenue isn't one to seek a solution from, hence his: "We shouldn’t
> waste a lot of time talking about them. Some people will anyway, but
> they’re just crazy." Admittedly, it's quite full on, albeit similar
> sentiments have been echoed before by some of the world's most prominent
> scientists/policy researchers etc., e.g.:
> "In delivering the prestigious Tyndall Lecture at the annual American
> Geophysical Union meeting last December, he said the idea of putting
> sulfate aerosols in the stratosphere was “barking mad.” Pierre­humbert also
> rejects the value of doing field experiments. “The whole idea of
> geoengineering is so crazy and would lead to such bad consequences, it
> really is pretty pointless. We already know enough about sulfate albedo
> engineering to know it would put the world in a really precarious state.
> Field experiments are really a dangerous step on the way to deployment, and
> I have a lot of doubts what would actually be learned.”"
>
> It seems that Tim Palmer holds the belief that impressions will change a
> lot when models become better (although he doesn't use a comparable tone): 
> "the
> nations of the world should come together to fund the sort of
> supercomputers that would allow us to simulate the climate of the coming
> century with much greater reliability than is currently possible.  The
> impact that this will have for mitigation, adaptation and geoengineering
> policies is likely to be enormous.", and so on.
>
> Al Gore does discuss other things he think may bring about solutions
> though - just not involving SRM in any way.
>
> And anyway, it seems quite obvious that there exists no necessary
> condition for a statement involving the pointing out of what an individual
> considers to be a major obvious issue/flaw to be coupled with a solution,
> no?
>
> Simon
>
>      ________________________________________________
>
> Simon Driscoll
> Atmospheric, Oceanic and Planetary Physics
> Department of Physics
> University of Oxford
>
> Office: +44 (0) 1865 272930
> Mobile: +44 (0) 7935314940
>
> http://www2.physics.ox.ac.uk/contacts/people/driscoll
>        ------------------------------
> *From:* Salif KONE [[email protected] <javascript:_e({}, 'cvml',
> '[email protected]');>]
> *Sent:* 24 August 2013 15:19
> *To:* Simon Driscoll; [email protected] <javascript:_e({},
> 'cvml', '[email protected]');>
> *Subject:* Re: [geo] Al Gore on geoengineering
>
>   I do disagree with this Al Gore' statement " ...We shouldn’t waste a
> lot of time talking about them. Some people will anyway, but they’re just
> crazy.". He exposes the problems without proposing a solution;
> Geo-engineering is trying to find a solutin through techniques as SRM...
>
>  ****************************************************
> *Salif KONE, *
> M.Sc.Université Joseph Fourier/OSUG Grenoble/
>                        UniversitéMontpellier II, 2007.
> *Enseignant* à l’Ecole Nationale d’Ingénieurs
>                   Abderrhamane Baba Touré (ENI-ABT)
> Adresse: 410 Av. Van Vollenhoven BP.: 242, Bamako-Mali.
> *PhD Student*(Oct. 2011- present), ISFRA-Bamako.
> Tel.:+223 76 39 60 09 / +223 64 59 67 99
> BP.:7048, Bamako-Mali.
> Email:[email protected] <javascript:_e({}, 'cvml',
> 'email%[email protected]');>
>
>   ------------------------------
> *De :* Simon Driscoll <[email protected] <javascript:_e({}, 'cvml',
> '[email protected]');>>
> *À :* "[email protected] <javascript:_e({}, 'cvml',
> '[email protected]');>" 
> <[email protected]<javascript:_e({}, 'cvml', 
> '[email protected]');>>
>
> *Envoyé le :* Vendredi 23 août 2013 21h20
> *Objet :* [geo] Al Gore on geoengineering
>
>  Al Gore: "Let me deal with the geoengineering part of your question
> first. That’s complex because there are some benign geoengineering
> proposals like white roofs or efforts to figure out a way to extract CO2
> from the atmosphere , though no one has figured out how to do that yet. But
> the geoengineering options most often discussed, like putting sulfur
> dioxide into the atmosphere or orbiting tinfoil strips — these are simply
> nuts. We shouldn’t waste a lot of time talking about them. Some people will
> anyway, but they’re just crazy.
>
>  To the broader part of your question, innovation is already playing a
> major role in bringing about new potential solutions to the climate crisis.
> The tech world had a bitter experience after the burst of enthusiasm in
> 2005 and 2006 because of a perfect storm made up of four elements: First,
> the great recession, which had a huge, destructive impact on business
> generally. Number two, the Chinese juggernaut, which subsidized the
> production of several prominent renewable energy technologies to the point
> where their sales price fell below the price of production in the West.
> Third, the shale gas boom dropped the retail price of electricity to levels
> below what many renewable energy plans needed to be viable. And fourth
> there was the policy failure I mentioned earlier in the U.S. Senate and
> Copenhagen. And all the while there was this massively funded climate
> denier campaign by the Koch Brothers and Exxon-Mobile and others that hired
> tobacco industry veterans to work with them on consumer advertising and
> lobbying activities.
>  But that setback was only temporary because reality has a way of
> reasserting itself. There has been a 100-fold increase in the number of
> extreme, high-temperature events around the world in the distribution
> curve. And people have noticed for themselves — the rain storms are bigger,
> the droughts are deeper and the fires are more destructive. All of these
> things have not escaped notice and people are connecting the dots. The
> cumulative amount of energy trapped by manmade global warming pollution
> each day in the earth’s atmosphere is now equal to the energy that would be
> released by 400,000 Hiroshima bombs going off every 24 hours. It’s a big
> planet, but that’s a lot of energy.
> The consequences are now hard to escape. Every night on the news, it’s
> like a nature hike through the book of revelations. Eleven states today are
> fighting 35 major fires! People are noticing this. And simultaneously
> they’re noticing the sharp drop in the cost of carbon-free, greenhouse
> gas-free energy, and the combination is pushing us over this political
> tipping point and the trend is unstoppable."
>
> http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/wonkblog/wp/2013/08/21/
> al-gore-explains-why-hes-optimistic-about-stopping-global-warming/
>
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-- 
_______________
Ken Caldeira

Carnegie Institution for Science
Dept of Global Ecology
260 Panama Street, Stanford, CA 94305 USA
+1 650 704 7212 [email protected]
http://dge.stanford.edu/labs/caldeiralab  @kencaldeira

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