Dr. Pak-Hang, List and ccs: 1. Thanks for your input. I had not realized that we had anyone on this list with expertise on this matter. (Googling shows that Dr. Wong is employed on exactly this topic at Oxford University and possibly (or formerly) at Twente.
2. I skimmed an article you wrote on ethics from the Confucian perspective. No mention of geoengineering of course, but wonder if you can carry anything over from those or your present activities into ethics and geoengineering - and especially the CDR side which Prof. Hamilton certainly doesn’t cover very well (nor probably intended to) 3. I sense you have been mainly/only looking at SRM. Any favorite cites on the CDR side? Or the SRM side? 4. I am pushing this ethics topic, because I think ethics is the best avenue we have to promote more detailed study on both SRM and CDR. Ron On Jan 20, 2014, at 4:24 AM, Pak-Hang Wong <[email protected]> wrote: > Heidegger’s affiliation to Nazi (and Nazism) was unfortunate and repulsing. I > do, however, think that we should not be satisfy with an ad hominem. > > I think the Heideggerian insight is to make explicit that technology could be > seen as a revealing background - technology exemplifies the way human beings > conceptualise the human-world relationship. One problem with Heidegger (and > Hamilton), I see, rather, is the failure to see the multiplicity and > complexity in enframing, thus asserting technology (or, better, > Technology-with-a-capital-T; or, in Hamilton’s case, > Geoengineering-with-a-capital-G) reveals the attitude of control. I suspect > here SRM is the ‘best’ example because it can easily be interpreted as an > instance of exerting control over the nature, etc. > > Another problem here is the failure to include human agency into the > discussion. I do agree with the Heideggerian insight that technology indeed > embodies a specific way of conceptualise the world. It does not however > entail that human beings are intrinsically blackboxed into this way of > thinking. At least, one important advancement in philosophy of technology is > to point out that this blackbox can be opened and technologies can be > redesigned (or, re-engineered) as to fit better what we believe is morally > and/or politically right. > > Anyway, perhaps, the lesson from Heidegger should not be: Hamilton(’s > Heidegger) disapproves geoengineering/SRM, but Hamilton’s (Heidegger) > disapproves some ways of deploying geoengineering/SRM. > > On Sunday, 19 January 2014 22:28:33 UTC, kcaldeira wrote: > Before we concern ourselves too much with channeling Heidegger's ghost, and > echo-ing born-again Christians in asking what the great man would do, we > might want to keep in mind that Heidegger was a member of the Nazi party and > never publicly apologized for having become one. > > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Martin_Heidegger_and_Nazism > > Are we supposed to be concerned that a Nazi might have disapproved of SRM? > Are we supposed to be persuaded of the infallibility of his judgment? Is > this relevant to any important current discussion? > > > > > _______________ > Ken Caldeira > > Carnegie Institution for Science > Dept of Global Ecology > 260 Panama Street, Stanford, CA 94305 USA > +1 650 704 7212 [email protected] > http://dge.stanford.edu/labs/caldeiralab > https://twitter.com/KenCaldeira > > > > On Sun, Jan 19, 2014 at 2:08 PM, Ronal W. Larson <[email protected]> > wrote: > List: cc Ken, Charles, Andrew > > 1. I finally found the full Sept. 2013 paper at > http://clivehamilton.com/what-would-heidegger-say-about-geoengineering/ - > But you have to find the small “pdf” symbol there. 33 pages with language > that is difficult for me as a non-philosopher (e.g. “Being”, enframing, > dasein, etc..) > > To help - there is an interesting long set of Heidegger definitions at > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heideggerian_terminology > > 2. I conclude after several hours of reading that the answer to the paper’s > title question would be “I (Heidegger) disapprove”. But I missed such a > sentence if it was there. > > 3. Prof Hamilton has essentially zero mention of the CDR concept - and I > think also of biochar, although I am pretty sure Prof. Hamilton has used a > word like “benign” in the past for biochar. The iron fertilization concept > is mentioned, but I think the words geoengineering and sulfur release are > virtually synonymous in this paper. > > 4. So this note is to ask list members who understand Heidegger the > question: "What Would Heidegger Say About CDR (and/or Biochar)?" > I looked carefully and am totally unsure - there was considerable > reference to “nature”, differences between “world” and “earth”, entropy, etc. > I am not asking about Hamilton’s view, but rather Heidegger’s. > > 5. Here are some quotes I thought pertinent to my above follow-on question > > (p 19) " Plans to engineer the climate—through the creation of a planetary > command centre—are bound to come to grief on the rock of earth because, > through all attempts by humans to understand and control the earth, disorder > irrupts.” (RWL: Hamilton not Heidegger speaking - and often same below.) > > (p 20) "It is worth noting that Heidegger’s conception implies a rejection > of all ethical naturalism, such as that captured in Aldo Leopold’s maxim: ‘A > thing is right when it tends to preserve the integrity, stability and beauty > of the biotic community. It is wrong when it tends otherwise. [RWL: Shucks > - I liked the Leopold version] > >> (p22 ) Geoengineering schemes aim to confine Being to the shadows. > > (p22) Geoengineering itself is proof that the future is not in our hands, > for if it were we would not have the crisis that geoengineering wants to > solve. [RWL: Hmm. Here I disagree. I think the future is in our hands. > Professor Hamilton is missing the full range of Geoengineering.] > > .(p26) So we may say that it is not geoengineering itself that is most > dangerous, but the ever-tightening grip of Enframing that makes > geoengineering thinkable. > > (p 27-28) Heidegger was not opposed to technology. Yes, it represents the > danger, but there can be no going back to the pre-modern because Enframing > must take its course. The task is not to oppose technology but to open > ourselves to its ontological meaning and the power it has over us.86 We can > then free ourselves from technology without rejecting it, and until we free > ourselves we cannot make a good judgment about geoengineering. pp 27-28 > > (p28) Diagnosing an insufficiency of mastery, we plan to expand control over > the so-far unregulated parts of the globe—the oceans whose chemical balance > we would change, the chemical composition of the atmosphere, the amount of > sunlight falling on the Earth. (p28) > > > (p28) "Proposals to engineer the climate system confirm that we have not yet > found a way to respond to the climate crisis, except with more of the same. > > > > 6. Thanks to Ken (below) for keeping the philosophical discussion alive. > But I need more help in understanding Heidegger. I understand Hamilton’s > views on SRM, but I remain uncertain on CDR. > > Ron > > > On Jan 19, 2014, at 2:42 AM, Ken Caldeira <[email protected]> wrote: > >> Let's not start insulting philosophers of science here. >> >> I do not believe that most philosophers of science see it as their role to >> discourage inquiry, but rather see their role as doing things such as >> analyzing how terms gain meaning and refer to things, how we can establish >> the truth or falsity of statements, and so on. They try to make explicit >> what is usually implicit in scientific inquiry. >> >> >> >> _______________ >> Ken Caldeira >> >> Carnegie Institution for Science >> Dept of Global Ecology >> 260 Panama Street, Stanford, CA 94305 USA >> +1 650 704 7212 [email protected] >> http://dge.stanford.edu/labs/caldeiralab >> https://twitter.com/KenCaldeira >> >> >> >> On Sun, Jan 19, 2014 at 1:33 AM, Charles H. Greene <[email protected]> wrote: >> When we are on the verge of truly catastrophic climate change, I wonder what >> philosophers of science will offer us as an alternative? Obviously, if they >> wish to discourage scientists from even exploring possible geoengineering >> options, they must have alternatives to offer, right? >> >> >> >> >> On Jan 18, 2014, at 10:31 PM, Andrew Lockley <[email protected]> wrote: >> >>> http://anthem-group.net/2014/01/18/what-would-heidegger-say-about-geoengineering-clive-hamilton/ >>> >>> What Would Heidegger Say About Geoengineering? Clive Hamilton >>> >>> Abstract: Proposals to respond to climate change by geoengineering the >>> Earth’s climate system, such as by regulating the amount of sunlight >>> reaching the planet, may be seen as a radical fulfillment of Heidegger’s >>> understanding of technology as destiny. Before geoengineering was >>> conceivable, the Earth as a whole had to be representable as a total >>> object, an object captured in climate models that form the epistemological >>> basis for climate engineering. Geoengineering is thinkable because of the >>> ever-tightening grip of Enframing, Heidegger’s term for the modern epoch of >>> Being. Yet, by objectifying the world as a whole, geoengineering goes >>> beyond the mere representation of nature as ‘standing reserve’; it requires >>> us to think Heidegger further, to see technology as a response to disorder >>> breaking through. If in the climate crisis nature reveals itself to be a >>> sovereign force then we need a phenomenology from nature’s point of view. >>> If ‘world grounds itself on earth, and earth juts through world’, then the >>> climate crisis is the jutting through, and geoengineering is a last attempt >>> to deny it, a vain attempt to take control of destiny rather than enter a >>> free relation with technology. In that lies the danger. >>> >>> >>> -- >>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >>> "geoengineering" group. >>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an >>> email [email protected]. >>> To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. >>> Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/geoengineering. >>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out. >> >> >> -- >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >> "geoengineering" group. >> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an >> email [email protected]. >> To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. >> Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/geoengineering. >> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out. >> >> >> -- >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >> "geoengineering" group. >> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an >> email [email protected]. >> To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. >> Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/geoengineering. >> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "geoengineering" group. 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