I'm with you on the idea that there is no better way to manage GHG's and their 
impact than to reduct GHG emissions. Thanks for pointing this out. But if we 
continue to fail to adequately reduce emissions, wouldn't CDR be better than no 
action at all, as you modeling shows? And what is the better alternative to CDR 
for mitigating all of the CO2 that has already been and will be emitted (and 
associated climate and ocean effects) before we get to zero emissions? 

I also think that your modeling could make a strong case that CDR that 
generates ocean alkalinity is the preferred CDR method. How about modeling the 
ocean chem recovery rate when 5Gt or 25 Gt CO2/yr are consumed via via enhanced 
mineral weathering and the resulting alkalinity added to the ocean? Get in 
touch if you want to collaborate on this.

Greg
 
--------------------------------------------
On Sat, 8/8/15, Sabine Mathesius <[email protected]> wrote:

 Subject: Re: [geo] Long-term response of oceans to CO2 removal from the 
atmosphere
 To: "Greg Rau" <[email protected]>, "geoengineering" 
<[email protected]>
 Cc: [email protected]
 Date: Saturday, August 8, 2015, 9:10 AM
 
 Hi, just a short
 clarification:
 
 The main
 point of our study is not that CDR is useless, but that it
 is 
 not effective enough to counteract
 business as usual CO2 emissions. Our 
 results stress, once again, that there is no
 alternative to immediate 
 emissions
 reduction - CDR can be deployed as a supplemental measure
 (and 
 maybe it should), but it would not be
 effective enough to reverse severe 
 changes
 caused by a delay in emissions reduction.
 
 On alkalinity addition: How
 likely is it that we would be able to do 
 this on a global scale? I could imagine that
 alkalinity addition might 
 be a way to
 protect a coral reef, being deployed locally, but globally?
 
 I guess it would be much harder to do than
 atmospheric CDR and you would 
 have to be
 very careful how much alkalinity you add and how often, to
 
 not further stress marine organisms? As far
 as I know, there are hardly 
 any studies on
 this?
 
 (By the way, our
 study is not only about ocean acidification, but also 
 about warming and oxygen depletion.)
 
 Best,
 
 Sabine
 
 
 
 On 08/08/15 12:50 am, Greg Rau wrote:
 > If the goal is to restore ocean chemistry,
 it would indeed seem inherently inefficient to do so via CO2
 removal from air.  Better to remove excess CO2 from the
 ocean by chemical, geochemical, or biological means (1), my
 favorite being alkalinity addition.
 >
 Secondly, according to the IPCC (2) and now UNEP (3),  RCP
 2.6 scenarios cannot be achieved without CDR  -  in the
 UNEP estimate, 300 Gts CO2 worth by 2100. So while I
 don't think anyone is asking CDR to do all of the heavy
 lifting, it would appear that at least some CDR is essential
 to achieve RCP 2.6 and probably even less ambitious
 scenarios, depending on when/if we ever get serious about
 emissions reduction.  What then is the point of dissing CDR
 if emissions reduction alone isn't going to save the
 ocean and the planet either?
 >
 > 1) http://link.springer.com/referenceworkentry/10.1007/978-94-007-5784-4_54
 > 2) 
 > http://www.ipcc.ch/pdf/assessment-report/ar5/wg1/WG1AR5_Chapter06_FINAL.pdf
 > 3) http://www.unep.org/emissionsgapreport2014/
 >
 > Greg
 >     
 >
 --------------------------------------------
 > On Mon, 8/3/15, Andrew Lockley <[email protected]>
 wrote:
 >
 >   Subject: [geo] Long-term
 response of oceans to CO2 removal from the atmosphere
 >   To:
 "geoengineering" <[email protected]>
 >   Date: Monday, August 3, 2015,
 1:02 PM
 >   
 >    
 >http://www.nature.com/nclimate/journal/vaop/ncurrent/full/nclimate2729.html
 >   
 >   Long-term response of oceans
 to CO2 removal from the
 >   atmosphere
 >   
 >   Sabine Mathesius,1, 2,
 >   Matthias Hofmann,1,
 >   Ken Caldeira3,
 >   & Hans Joachim
 Schellnhuber1, 4,
 >   
 >   Nature Climate Change
 (2015):
 >   doi:10.1038/nclimate2729
 >    Published online 03 August 2015
 >   
 >   Abstract
 >   
 >   Carbon dioxide removal (CDR)
 from the atmosphere has been
 >   proposed as
 >   a measure for mitigating
 global warming and ocean
 >   acidification. To
 >   assess the extent to which
 CDR might eliminate the
 >   long-term
 >   consequences of anthropogenic
 CO2 emissions in the marine
 >   environment,
 >   we simulate the effect of two
 massive CDR interventions with
 >   CO2
 >   extraction rates of 5 GtC
 yr−1 and 25 GtC yr−1,
 >   respectively, while
 >   CO2 emissions follow the
 extended RCP8.5 pathway. We falsify
 >   two
 >   hypotheses: the first being
 that CDR can restore
 >   pre-industrial
 >   conditions in the ocean by
 reducing the atmospheric CO2
 >   concentration
 >   back to its pre-industrial
 level, and the second being that
 >   high CO2
 >   emissions rates (RCP8.5)
 followed by CDR have long-term
 >   oceanic
 >   consequences that are similar
 to those of low emissions
 >   rates
 >   (RCP2.6). Focusing on pH,
 temperature and dissolved oxygen,
 >   we find
 >   that even after several
 centuries of CDR deployment, past
 >   CO2
 >   emissions would leave a
 substantial legacy in the marine
 >   environment.
 >   
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