I am not in opposition to your arguments, that the biotic carbonates
presents the biggest fraction of fixed carbon on the continents and a
multiple of any organic carbon remnant. Because this kind of biotic
generated sediments precipitated in shallow shelf seas and not within
the ocean crust they kept mostly part of the continents and could pile
up to huge mountains like the dolomites or impressive cliffs like that
of dover. While these caronate rock sediments piled up on the
continents they represent today the most prominent remnants of former
atmospheric CO2. Do you believe that biogene deposition of carbonate
rock is of greater importance than abiogene carbonate deposition within
the ocean crust?
If you would gather the carbonate rock stored within the ocean crust and
generated during only some million years and pile them up on a
continents surface you might even generate mountain ranges or imposant
cliffs not smaller than your examples. But the ocean crust becomes
subduced and sinks back into the mantle. Only crust remnants are
subduction volcanic exhalations and eruption plumes and only some sparce
remnants like the ophiolite mountains of Oman.
Your original argument was: "weathering of olivine sand that is spread
over land or in shallow seas is much more effective" than "activation
of the vertical oceanic currents". I can't find any proof in your
arguments for that.
------ Originalnachricht ------
Von: "Schuiling, R.D. (Olaf)" <[email protected]>
An: "'Franz Dietrich Oeste'" <[email protected]>
Gesendet: 09.05.2017 15:16:36
Betreff: RE: Re[2]: [geo] Beyond Carbon Neutral UMich
These data are rather irrelevant regarding the capture of CO2 after
olivine weathering. The Mg-bicarbonate water produced by olivine
weathering on land is transported to the sea by rivers. In the sea
corals, shellfish and plankton make their skeletons from this, and when
they die, these shells sink to the bottom and form limestones.
Limestones contain approximately 1 million times (!!!) more CO2 than
all the seas, the atmosphere and the biosphere together, so they are
the safe and sustainable storage of CO2. Best regards, Olaf Schuilin
From: Franz Dietrich Oeste [mailto:[email protected]]
Sent: dinsdag 9 mei 2017 14:57
To: Schuiling, R.D. (Olaf)
Subject: Re[2]: [geo] Beyond Carbon Neutral UMich
Dear Olaf,
Olivine sand spread over land or in shallow seas reacts with CO2 by
generation of MgCO3, or dissolved MgH(CO3)2. According to several
reasons the igneous ocean crust is much more efficient in production of
carbonate rock by CO2 fixation:
Olivine containing crust rocks becomes transformed by the warmed up
ocean water by heat generation and volume expansion into serpentine
rock, magnetite and hydrogen. Hydrogen and its microbial reaction
product methane react with the ocean water sulfate by generation of
sulfide. This again increases the pH and initiates additional carbonate
rock precipitation from seawater CO2 and HCO3-.The elevated
temperatures of the solidified igneous rock and generated by the
serpentinization reaction induce further precipitation of carbonate
rock from dissolved CO2 and HCO3-.The volume expansion during the
serpentinization reaction as well as the sudden cooling by contact of
hot stone with cold ocean water induce lots of cracks and opens
countless vains as new reaction sites and places for carbonate
precipitationThis increases and optimizes the carbonate precipitation:
without any additional CO2 producing artificial energy input which is
necessary to crush peridotites, serpentinites, diabases or olivine-rich
basaltes to induce artificial weathering
According to Rausch et al. (2013) the carbonate rock generated within
the veins of crust rock from ocean water rock reaction is about 1.6
vol.%. According to Li et al. (2016) the production rate of crust rock
is recently at about 20 cubic kilometers per year. This responds to
about 0,32 cubic kilometers new carbonate rock per year. After the
reaction with ocean water and assuming a dolomite like composition of
the precipitating carbonate rock in the veins and assuming a carbonate
rock density of 2.9 x 10 exp. 9 t/cubic kilometer this corresponds to
about 0,93 x 10 exp. 9 t of dolomite or 0,12 x 10 exp. 9 t of carbon.
According to this result an equivalent mass of CO2 is absorbed every
year by extraction of CO2 from the air by ocean water and HCO3- by
surface water run-off into the ocean and becomes transported from the
ocean surface by the vertical cycling ocean currents to the ocean
bottom. Even a great part of the dead phytoplankton and further food
chain litter produced at the ocean surface becomes reoxidized on its
way down: this part of CO2 and/or HCO3- even becomes part of the
carbonatized ocean crust.
Literature
Li M, Black B, Zhong S, Manga M, Rudolph ML, Olson P, 2016:
Quantifiying melt production and degassing rate at mid-ocean ridges
from global mantle convection models with plate motion history.
Geochemistry, Geophysics, Geosystems, 17(7), 2884-2904.
Rausch S, Böhm F, Bach W, Eisenhauer A, 2013: Calcium carbonate veins
in ocean crust record a threefold increase of seawater Mg/Ca in the
past 30 Million years. Earth and Planetary Science Letters 362,
215-224.
Franz
------ Originalnachricht ------
Von: "Schuiling, R.D. (Olaf)" <[email protected]>
An: "'[email protected]'" <[email protected]>
Gesendet: 09.05.2017 10:14:20
Betreff: RE: [geo] Beyond Carbon Neutral UMich
How do you know that activation of the vertical oceanic currents is
the most effective? I think that weathering of olivine sand that is
spread over land or in shallow seas is much more effective, Olaf
Schuiling
From:[email protected]
[mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Franz Dietrich
Oeste
Sent: dinsdag 9 mei 2017 9:50
To:[email protected]; [email protected]
Subject: Re: [geo] Beyond Carbon Neutral UMich
This "Beyond Carbon Neutral" multidisciplinary research initiative
shall "increase the rate at which carbon is removed from the global
carbon cycle".
This is impossible: any removal of carbon from the global carbon cycle
is impossible - except the carbon would be placed outside of the
globe. What only can be done is the activation of carbon transfer from
atmosphere back into the geosphere. Direct and sustainable carbon
transfer from the atmosphere into the geosphere is possible for
instance by the Terra Preta method. But the most efficient method to
do this is the activation of the vertical oceanic currents as carbon
transport medium between atmosphere and ocean sediment and/or the
igneous ocean crust aquifer, for instance by the ISA method.
Franz
------ Originalnachricht ------
Von: "Andrew Lockley" <[email protected]>
An: [email protected]
<mailto:[email protected]>
Gesendet: 09.05.2017 01:19:13
Betreff: [geo] Beyond Carbon Neutral UMich
http://beyondcarbonneutral.org/
· BEYOND CARBON NEUTRAL
Climate change is a defining challenge of the 21st Century. To
address it, we must deploy a diverse set of solutions to minimize or
reverse global warming and adapt to its impacts. To complement
existing efforts to reduce greenhouse gas (GHG) emissions, the
University of Michigan Energy Institute is developing a new
initiative called Beyond Carbon Neutral. This multidisciplinary
research effort investigates technologies, processes and policies to
increase the rate at which carbon is removed from the global carbon
cycle.
Why “Beyond” Carbon Neutral?
Carbon dioxide (CO2) emitted from fossil fuel use is the largest
source of anthropogenic GHG emissions that are warming the earth’s
atmosphere, and a range of critical efforts are currently underway to
reduce emissions from these sources. However, long-term climate
stabilization goals such as those announced in 2015 in Paris will be
difficult, if not impossible, to achieve with these solutions alone.
Enter Beyond Carbon Neutral, which supports research on carbon
dioxide removal (CDR), approaches that increases the rate at which
CO2 is removed from the atmosphere. This CO2 can then be converted
into carbon-based materials that are either sequestered or
substituted for fossil carbon. Sometimes called “negative emissions,”
what distinguishes CDR is that its aim is not merely to achieve
carbon neutrality, but rather to greatly increase the rate of
negative emissions through mechanisms that go Beyond Carbon Neutral.
What is carbon dioxide removal?
A well-known example of CDR is reforestation, which can increase the
rate of CO2 uptake for decades. Others include agricultural practices
that increase soil carbon uptake and other forms of terrestrial
carbon management. If productive lands are appropriately managed,
bioenergy with carbon capture and storage is a possible CDR
mechanism. A range of advanced technologies can also be developed to
further expand CDR capability. Beyond Carbon Neutral supports
research into each of these areas, examining ways to increase carbon
uptake, as well as methods for storing and utilizing excess carbon.
Beyond Carbon Neutral at the University of Michigan
Why U-M?
Beyond Carbon Neutral is designed to take the necessary steps to
develop this crucial area and raise its profile for action at local
and global levels.
The Energy Institute has worked with over 60 faculty to develop more
than 45 inventive research proposals investigating different aspects
of CDR. These research activities fall into three overlapping areas:
the biosphere, technology, and human systems. Some Beyond Carbon
Neutral research activities fall clearly into one research area,
while others bridge the conceptual divides that too often limit the
scope and ambition of academic research
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