Andrew et al., A new paper has emerged on the issue of environmental governance.
In my first view, the authors lay down a few important foundation lines. http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S146290111730254X The basket of sciences and technologies that can support the Dutch environmental governance model is larger than many believe. Best, Michael On Sep 18, 2017 7:20 AM, "Andrew Lockley" <[email protected]> wrote: > For clarity, I meant that the energy losses pumping from below the > thermocline are modest. Comparable to pumping water for domestic use. > > A > > On 16 Sep 2017 01:08, "Peter Flynn" <[email protected]> wrote: > >> Andrew, >> >> >> >> I’m not sure I understand your comment that deep water isn’t that deep. >> Typical numbers for the shallow ocean are a depth of 200 meter, with a >> thermocline between 200 and 1000 meters and a very consistent temperature >> and salinity below 1000 meters. See, for example: >> >> >> >> https://oceanservice.noaa.gov/facts/thermocline.html >> >> >> >> One could bring the deep ocean from 1000 meters to surface in a sealed >> tube; it would take energy. I don’t know the permanent salt fountain well >> enough to comment on it. >> >> >> >> Peter >> >> >> >> Peter Flynn, P. Eng., Ph. D. >> >> Emeritus Professor and Poole Chair in Management for Engineers >> >> Department of Mechanical Engineering >> >> University of Alberta >> >> [email protected] >> >> cell: 928 451 4455 <(928)%20451-4455> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> *From:* Andrew Lockley [mailto:[email protected]] >> *Sent:* Friday, September 15, 2017 11:54 AM >> *To:* Peter Flynn <[email protected]> >> *Cc:* Jason Zhou <[email protected]>; geoengineering < >> [email protected]>; [email protected] >> *Subject:* RE: [geo] SOS 2017 Session spotlight 4 - Ocean NETs - CO2 >> Sequestration Via Ocean-Based Negative Emissions Technologies >> >> >> >> Thanks Peter. However, you don't address whether pumping water into >> sealed tubes or greenhouses would be viable. >> >> >> >> Deep water isn't that deep - water for my toilet is pumped much further. >> >> >> >> As long as the water lifted was kept away from the atmosphere and surface >> ocean, it should be effective at fertilization of algae without releasing >> CO2 >> >> >> >> A >> >> >> >> On 15 Sep 2017 18:15, "Peter Flynn" <[email protected]> wrote: >> >> This prompts several comments, and apologies for the delay and to those >> for whom this is too basic: >> >> >> >> 1. The ocean can be thought of as two relatively independent bodies of >> water, the shallow and deep ocean. There is a fairly sharp boundary between >> the two, called the thermocline. Transfer between the two is limited, as >> discussed below. Once something in solution is in the deep ocean, on >> average its residence time before getting to the shallow ocean is 600 to >> 1000 years. This is an average; there are regions of the ocean where >> circulation between the deep and shallow ocean is very limited, and the >> site specific residence time is longer. >> >> >> >> The deep ocean is cold and dense. Mixing with the shallow ocean is >> energetically difficult because of the energy required to move a dense >> element up against gravity across the thermocline into a less dense zone. >> >> >> >> 2. The interaction between shallow and deep is limited to downwelling and >> upwelling currents. There are two major zones of downwelling current, a >> zone in the north Atlantic called the GIN (named for its proximity to >> Greenland, Iceland, and Norway) and a zone in the Antarctic by the Weddell >> Sea. The GIN downwelling current is called the North Atlantic Deep Water >> (NADW), and is the countervailing flow to the Gulf Stream. Downwelling is >> driven by a combination of temperature and high salinity (the high salinity >> is in part driven by evaporation in the Mediterranean Sea, a current from >> which joins the Gulf Stream). NADW and the companion Gulf Stream were >> interrupted for about 1200 years when Lake Agassiz, a glacial fresh water >> lake in North America, flowed into the Atlantic after an ice dam melted. >> The result was a 1200 year European cold period known as the Younger Dryas. >> >> >> >> Europe has centers of high population at latitudes higher than any other >> region on the globe; the Gulf Stream is credited for enabling this. One >> concern cited about global warming is that melting of Greenland ice could >> interrupt the NADW / Gulf Stream again: the irony is that an early product >> of global warming could be a European “ice age”. >> >> >> >> 3. Songjian Zhou and I looked at whether one could move CO2 from the >> atmosphere into the deep ocean by increasing the concentration of CO2 in >> NADW. Our answer was no: the surface water descending into the NADW was >> saturated in CO2. But the deep ocean is not saturated in CO2, because of >> its higher pressure. >> >> >> >> 4. Hence discussion of moving deep ocean water into the shallow ocean >> baffles me. Yes: it contains nutrients. But it also contains CO2, which >> would flash as the pressure dropped and temperature increased. It strikes >> me that we should think of the deep ocean as the sink for CO2, not a source >> of a “fix”. Any plan to use the nutrients in the deep ocean to grow marine >> biomass to be sunk into the deep ocean (or utilized as biofuel) would have >> to be carefully tested against the CO2 release. >> >> >> >> 5. Glen Tichkowsky and I looked at a scheme in which ocean side pools of >> sea water would be used to grow algae. Evaporation would increase the >> salinity of the pond to a point where the water could be moved as a batch >> into the deep ocean without pumping. The rate limiting step, by an order of >> magnitude, was the rate of transfer of CO2 from atmosphere to ocean; it was >> sufficiently slow to make the cost of carbon sequestration by this scheme >> prohibitive. I understood after this work why commercial algae growing >> operations often include agitation (to enhance mass transfer) or CO2 >> injection. Transferring CO2 into solution is well served by a higher >> concentration, e.g. flue gas. >> >> >> >> I hope this is helpful. >> >> >> >> Peter >> >> >> >> Peter Flynn, P. Eng., Ph. D. >> >> Emeritus Professor and Poole Chair in Management for Engineers >> >> Department of Mechanical Engineering >> >> University of Alberta >> >> [email protected] >> >> cell: 928 451 4455 <(928)%20451-4455> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> *From:* [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] *On Behalf Of *Ken >> Caldeira >> *Sent:* Monday, September 11, 2017 7:03 AM >> *To:* Geoengineering <[email protected]> >> *Subject:* [geo] SOS 2017 Session spotlight 4 - Ocean NETs - CO2 >> Sequestration Via Ocean-Based Negative Emissions Technologies >> >> >> >> fyi >> >> >> >> [image: >> http://sable.madmimi.com/view?id=37127.2887543.1.7549b994549320031d05f495dbf42a2e] >> >> Sustainable Ocean Summit 2017 SESSION SPOTLIGHT Ocean NETs: CO2 >> Sequestration Via Ocean-Based Negative Emissions Technologies (NETs) The >> Internatio >> >> >> >> [image: SOS2017 bannerRegistrationOpen 600x150px] >> <http://sable.madmimi.com/c/37127?id=2887543.2303.1.c94303a2dc2c5c07d90790b5f2ba98d4> >> >> >> Sustainable Ocean Summit 2017 SESSION SPOTLIGHT >> <http://sable.madmimi.com/c/37127?id=2887543.2304.1.a0bb2736e6402dc798ad4baa8e92c3d4> >> >> >> >> [image: ***] >> >> >> Ocean NETs: CO2 Sequestration Via Ocean-Based Negative Emissions >> Technologies (NETs) >> >> >> >> [image: Screen Shot 2017-09-08 at 21.10.24] >> <http://sable.madmimi.com/c/37127?id=2887543.2305.1.93a67d8d56ade51b064a6de73b758487> >> >> >> >> The International Climate Agreement (Paris 2015) requires negative >> emission technologies (NETs) to remove carbon dioxide from the atmosphere >> in order to meet planetary safe limits. NETs need to transfer carbon from >> the atmosphere to a safe and environmentally sound storage. Developing and >> implementing NETs are critical to all industries with a carbon footprint >> who already or will in the near future have a price on their carbon output. >> >> Although there is much attention to potential land based NETs, there is >> growing evidence that the ocean is the dominant player in global carbon >> cycling and storage and in the planet’s temperature regulation. This means >> that ocean-based NETs must be given serious consideration for their >> potential to make a significant contribution to climate mitigation. >> >> Chemical and biological Ocean NETs are being explored, including: ocean >> alkalinity shifts (introducing bicarbonates), direct CO2 injection (seabed >> and water column), growing seaweed for deep ocean deposition, expansion of >> coastal ecosystems that store carbon, adjusting ocean primary productivity >> (e.g. artificial upwelling, addition of macronutrients nitrogen and/or >> phosphorus, addition of trace elements such as iron and silicon, enhanced >> light penetration, promoting the growth of nitrogen fixing cyanobacteria). >> >> Researchers, private enterprises and public bodies exploring Ocean NETs >> coordination could benefit from a structure and process to enhance >> coordination and exchange. The World Ocean Council (WOC) is working to >> address this by developing a global Ocean NET platform to bring together >> science, policy, business and other interests. >> >> *The SOS 2017 session on “Ocean NETs: CO2 Sequestration Via Ocean-Based >> Negative Emissions Technologies (NETs)”* will address: >> • What are the requirements of the International Climate Agreement (Paris >> 2015) for negative emission technologies (NET’s) to remove atmospheric CO2 >> to meet planetary safe limits for global temperatures? >> • What are the potential ocean-based NETs, what science is available on >> them and what are the risks and benefits of Ocean NETs? >> • What is needed to advance careful, science-based consideration of Ocean >> NETs as a potentially viable, important means to address increasing >> atmospheric CO2? >> >> The SOS 2017 session will focus on tangible goals that can assist in >> advancing the evaluation of Ocean NETs, e.g. determining the potential >> impact and status of Ocean NETs; identifying research gaps and unknowns; >> reviewing the cost of implementation of Ocean NETs; reviewing the legal >> framework for Ocean NETs; exploring the conceptual design of a future >> multipurpose Ocean NET station for capturing CO2, producing food, >> generating power, and interacting with other ocean users. With a cluster of >> innovative ocean technologies there is significantly more potential to >> build commercially viable ocean enterprises that help ensure that >> innovative NET solutions combine the very best ocean technologies and >> skills in multi-functional marine technology sites housing and enabling >> Ocean NETs. >> >> To better understand the opportunities and challenges of Ocean NETs, >> experts and representatives from the ocean business community and other >> stakeholders are invited to get engaged as speakers or participants in the >> SOS 2017 session on this critical issue by contacting the WOC at >> [email protected] <%[email protected]>. >> >> >> >> [image: ***] >> >> >> *Practical Information:* >> >> >> >> [image: UpdatedProgram] >> <http://sable.madmimi.com/c/37127?id=2887543.2306.1.008c154ed2df0a79c61da7a08ac66441> >> >> >> >> [image: Date] >> <http://sable.madmimi.com/c/37127?id=2887543.2307.1.9080e62fa14a67d8c8852063d961a8fd> >> >> >> >> [image: Location] >> <http://sable.madmimi.com/c/37127?id=2887543.2308.1.e4865157bac7e41a14d6d6cd8143ca76> >> >> >> >> [image: sos] >> <http://sable.madmimi.com/c/37127?id=2887543.2309.1.c1127082dd4a8bb13cf24b6882e76e25> >> >> >> >> Stay informed of our latest news! >> >> >> >> [image: twitter-01] >> <http://sable.madmimi.com/c/37127?id=2887543.2310.1.a72613fae0582b7aa0f4f1ca8ccc00cd> >> >> >> >> [image: linkedin-01] >> <http://sable.madmimi.com/c/37127?id=2887543.2311.1.798f0122cff1a00e0e5f5024d79cb240> >> >> >> >> Contact email: [email protected] >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> ©2017 World Ocean Council | 3035 Hibiscus Drive, Suite 1, Honolulu, >> Hawaii 96815 USA >> <https://maps.google.com/?q=3035+Hibiscus+Drive,+Suite+1,+Honolulu,+Hawaii+96815+USA&entry=gmail&source=g> >> >> >> >> Web Version >> <http://sable.madmimi.com/c/37127?id=2887543.2312.1.802a8099500064c86e1031be1a3e449c&p=eyJ7e21pbWktc2lnbmF0dXJlfX0iOiIxNDEzNzMwMTktNjk1NDg4ODI1OC0yNTlkZjExNGU3MWIzMzBmYWE2ODAwOGM5NmQxZmI2NmY2MDE5YzhkIiwie3tlbWFpbElkfX0iOiIyODg3NTQzIn0=> >> Forward >> <http://sable.madmimi.com/c/37127?id=2887543.2313.1.ffbda90934b917b5d27edb356b9bf61d&p=eyJ7e21pbWktc2lnbmF0dXJlfX0iOiIxNDEzNzMwMTktNjk1NDg4ODI1OC0yNTlkZjExNGU3MWIzMzBmYWE2ODAwOGM5NmQxZmI2NmY2MDE5YzhkIiwie3ttZW1iZXItaWR9fSI6Njk1NDg4ODI1OCwie3tlbWFpbElkfX0iOiIyODg3NTQzIn0=> >> Unsubscribe >> <https://go.madmimi.com/opt_out?fe=1&pact=2887543-141373019-6954888258-259df114e71b330faa68008c96d1fb66f6019c8d&amx=6954888258> >> >> >> >> >> -- >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >> "geoengineering" group. >> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an >> email to [email protected]. >> To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. >> Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/geoengineering. >> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. >> >> -- >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >> "geoengineering" group. >> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an >> email to [email protected]. >> To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. >> Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/geoengineering. >> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. >> >> -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to a topic in the > Google Groups "geoengineering" group. > To unsubscribe from this topic, visit https://groups.google.com/d/ > topic/geoengineering/cQJD0xE7MPM/unsubscribe. > To unsubscribe from this group and all its topics, send an email to > [email protected]. > To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. > Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/geoengineering. > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "geoengineering" group. 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