And, sadly, the numbers of those believing this stuff aren't small: nature.com/articles/s41599-017-0014-3
*Gernot Wagner, Harvard University* gwagner.com *Climate Shock* *, a Top 15 FT McKinsey Business Book of the Year 2015, now Austria’s Natural Science Book of the Year 2017*climateshock.org <http://www.climateshock.org/> On Mon, Nov 13, 2017 at 9:05 AM, Andrew Lockley <[email protected]> wrote: > Personally, I flatly refuse to engage professionally with chemtraillers. > You'll get nowhere. I just block them. > > You can direct people to a debunk website and say you'll block them if > they contact you again. > > Personally, I get on with many of them fine. I'll happily chat to them > socially at conferences and stuff. > > A > > On 13 Nov 2017 13:16, "Douglas MacMartin" <[email protected]> > wrote: > >> I don’t know if this was a good idea or not to respond bluntly to Dane. >> The right answer is probably to just delete all of the garbage emails, >> since responding generally only brings more. Though my inbox is kind of >> filled with crap from these folks anyway, so can’t get worse, right? I >> guess some people thought that congress holding a hearing was proof that >> the US government was deploying geoengineering. >> >> >> >> (Last time I interacted with Dane, he edited my emails to remove my >> answers to his questions, then posted them on his website to show that I >> refused to answer his questions. And he also edited out all the >> hate-spewing nonsense from his own emails to make it look like he was >> charming and I was a jerk. Which is why my conclusion is that he knows >> full well that he’s making stuff up.) >> >> >> >> *From:* Douglas MacMartin [mailto:[email protected]] >> *Sent:* Monday, November 13, 2017 8:08 AM >> *To:* Dane Wigington <[email protected]>; ShadowsFall1 < >> [email protected]> >> *Cc:* [email protected]; [email protected] >> *Subject:* RE: Geoengineering >> >> >> >> Ah, Dane. You are an odd character. >> >> >> >> Anyway, you have precisely the same odds of exposing me for a climate >> engineering coverup as I do of exposing you for starting world war one, and >> for precisely the same reason. >> >> >> >> So, if you have any integrity left in you at all, you should actually >> post this on your website this time, unlike the last time where you >> deliberately removed any information from my emails that would expose you >> for what you are, and blocked me from commenting on your website to correct >> the information there. >> >> >> >> 1. All aircraft exhaust contains water vapour (a byproduct of >> combusting hydrocarbons) and particulates. In the right conditions these >> form contrails, as anyone with access to the internet can learn quickly (I >> think persistent ones are about 15% of the time, if I recall right). >> Anyone who thinks that high bypass ratio engines are somehow immune to this >> doesn’t understand contrail formation (it’s about the same as saying red >> cars don’t need gasoline). So, hypothesis #1 is that clouds are made of >> water, and hypothesis #2 is that there is some vast conspiracy involving a >> few hundred thousand people; I’ll let you judge for yourself which is more >> likely. Further, taking pictures of contrails doesn’t prove that they >> aren’t contrails any more than taking pictures of a tree proves it isn’t a >> tree. So… zero evidence presented here, lets move on. >> >> 2. People have found contaminants in soil. Ok… and the connection >> is? If you claim that anything found in soil could only have come from a >> deliberate coverup and no other cause, you should apply your own logic to >> acorns. I don’t know where things like barium come from, my guess would be >> industrial pollution, but I don’t know. So… zero evidence presented here >> (and I’m not sure what this has to do with anything else anyway), lets move >> on. >> >> 3. There are patents and previous programs in weather modification, >> which Dane has successfully found (they are all public, after all, so it >> doesn’t take much research to find them). Yup, we all agree. I have no >> idea if any of it still goes on in the US or not, I know China still does. >> (Spraying things like silver iodide to seed clouds and make it rain, I’ve >> been told it doesn’t really work.) So… nothing new here, and zero evidence >> presented that this has anything to do with climate engineering. I’m not >> sure what the connection is supposed to be here, or what the point of >> finding these patents was supposed to be, since there’s never any >> connection made with climate engineering. So lets move on… >> >> 4. So finally, climate engineering. The idea you appear to be >> trying to connect is the idea that you could put aerosols (most likely >> sulfate) into the stratosphere (say 60000 feet, where the lifetime of >> aerosols is years instead of weeks) to cool the global climate. Yup, I do >> research in climate models to better understand that. As do a number of >> other people. It’s all publicly available on my website. Some great >> papers came out last week, in fact, anyone can go read them and learn what >> I do. Not obviously a good idea, but depending on what happens with >> climate change, maybe it might help. And the connection with the >> aforementioned weather modification is… ? Unfortunately, Dane presents >> zero information on this and hopes his readers never notice. Doesn’t >> comment on the fact that the low-lying clouds in weather modification >> aren’t at the same altitude as contrails and sure aren’t at the altitude of >> the stratosphere. Doesn’t comment on how we could get things to the >> stratosphere (technically I think it is feasible, but no aircraft today can >> get there and deliver a payload, so no-one needs to worry that this is even >> feasible.) Doesn’t comment on the fact that contrails actually warm the >> planet, and don’t persist very long (nothing in the troposphere does), so >> that would be a stupid way to do climate engineering, so he must presume >> we’re both covering things up and insanely stupid. I don’t know if Dane >> has ever read anything on the subject of climate engineering, because you >> sure wouldn’t know it from the website. Doesn’t comment on the fact that >> sulfate aerosols, if some day someone ever chose to put them in the >> stratosphere and figured out how to get them there, would disperse, so >> wouldn’t look like a visible streak in the sky anyway, and you wouldn’t be >> finding things like barium as a result, since that would be a pretty stupid >> thing to use to reflect sunlight. Bottom line: Dane has never ever >> produced even a logically coherent implication connecting stratospheric >> aerosol climate engineering to the previous three things or to any real >> program. Nor will he ever do so, because there isn’t any evidence to >> produce. So I’m not sure what there is to debunk here; this is about like >> asking Dane to debunk the claim that he started world war one. Claiming >> that the existence of weather modification back to the 60s “proves” that >> people are currently putting aerosols into the stratosphere is about like >> pointing out that sneezing has been going on for thousands of years, >> therefore people are deliberately putting sulfate into the stratosphere. >> Huh? How, exactly, does one make that leap of logic? Other than both of >> them involving the atmosphere? (As I pointed out to one person, sneezing >> might even be more closely related, because at least it involves >> aerosols…) I can’t debunk anything here because there isn’t anything to >> debunk. >> >> >> >> Dane, you know you don’t need to keep the charade up with me, since I >> already caught you lying the last time we interacted. The question I have >> for you is, what’s in it for you? Is this about your ego? Are you making >> money off of this somehow? Do you think it’s just a giant colossal joke >> you’re having, like the people who made the crop circles in England? The >> people who read your website think you’ve done research and haven’t noticed >> that you haven’t actually put together a logically coherent train of >> thought. If I accuse you of starting world war one, everyone knows I’m >> being silly, but when you accuse me and my friends of crimes, there’s at >> least a handful of people who aren’t able to evaluate the evidence for >> themselves and actually trust that you are a reputable source of >> information. Some fraction of the people who read your website are >> wonderful well-meaning people who care deeply about the planet. But some >> of them are the most vile hate-spewing people I’ve ever encountered in my >> life, and I know people who have received credible death threats. So you >> might think this is all fun and games, but eventually someone will get >> hurt; you need to start taking responsibility for your actions. >> >> >> >> doug >> >> >> >> *From:* Dane Wigington [mailto:[email protected] <[email protected]>] >> *Sent:* Sunday, November 12, 2017 9:28 PM >> *To:* ShadowsFall1 <[email protected]> >> *Cc:* [email protected]; [email protected] >> *Subject:* Re: Geoengineering >> >> >> >> Yes, Brian, Mr. MacMartin (MacMynowski) will yet be exposed for his part >> in the criminal climate engineering coverup, wait and see. >> >> On Nov 12, 2017, at 3:43 PM, ShadowsFall1 <[email protected]> >> wrote: >> >> >> >> Mr. McMartin, >> >> >> >> I recently witnessed your testimony during the November 8th, 2017, >> hearing of the US House Committee on Science, Space, and Technology, with >> regard to geoengineering & solar radiation management programs. For some >> strange reason, all participants seemed to be under the assumption that >> solar radiation management has not been underway for decades. Yet >> government documents, lab tests from around the world, and video footage >> prove that jet aircraft have been spraying our skies with toxic heavy metal >> particulates for many years. >> >> >> >> During the hearing, you make the following statement: >> >> >> >> *"there is still considerable uncertainty as to the side effects and >> risks [of geoengineering] that will require focused, goal-oriented research >> that could take decades"* >> >> >> >> Yes Mr. McMartin, you are correct on this point, without question. >> Unfortunately, such research has already occurred in the sense that we have >> all been used as lab rats, as these programs have persisted for at least >> two generations already. The results have been catastrophic, with >> neurodegenerative diseases (among many other illnesses) soaring off the >> charts. >> >> >> >> Significant peer-reviewed literature already exists proving that aluminum >> (the primary element named in geoengineering patents) causes demyelination >> of the central nervous system, resulting in neurodegenerative diseases such >> as Alzheimer's, Parkinson's, ALS, multiple sclerosis, and others. Your >> actions are allowing these diseases to be forced upon populations of the >> world. Their blood is on your hands. The blood of your own children, >> family, and loved ones will also be on your hands as you watch their health >> deteriorate along with your own. Ask yourself if playing your part in this >> theatrical performance is worth such an outcome. >> >> >> >> The following documentary, in the first five minutes alone, contains >> enough evidence to prove beyond a shadow of a doubt these programs have >> already been deployed for some time: https://www.youtube.com/watch >> ?v=JZfEiiKTTbw >> >> >> >> When the masses fully awaken to the damage that has been done to their >> planet and health without their knowledge or consent, they will rout out >> those responsible. You will be among them. You will be tried as an >> accomplice to crimes against humanity. >> >> >> >> If you do not change course and choose to admit these programs are real >> and ongoing, you will either go down with the rest of us as Earth's life >> support systems fail, or you will be held accountable once this issue gets >> exposed. Neither outcome suits you. Choose wisely. >> >> >> >> Brian >> >> >> >> >> >> Sent with ProtonMail <https://protonmail.com/> Secure Email. >> >> >> >> >> >> -- >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >> "geoengineering" group. >> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an >> email to [email protected]. >> To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. >> Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/geoengineering. >> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. >> > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "geoengineering" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to [email protected]. > To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. > Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/geoengineering. > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "geoengineering" group. 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