Has Andrew Lockley  been punked along with James Temple?

*Legal Planet '* s sober fisking of Make Sunsets failed to notice its 
executives most interesting potential  liability defense —   the  ChatGPT 
AI did it !

 Iseman & Song's  offering website ran the following  

*Author's note: 99% of this blog post and title was written using the help 
of ChatGPT <https://openai.com/blog/chatgpt/> and the hero image was 
generated using DreamStudio <https://beta.dreamstudio.ai/dream>. The title 
was generated based off the content of the blog post.*



On Monday, January 2, 2023 at 11:34:05 AM UTC-5 Chris Vivian wrote:

> Edward Parson has posted a commentary on Legal Planet about the Make 
> Sunsets concept - see - A Dangerous Disruption - Legal Planet 
> (legal-planet.org) 
> <https://legal-planet.org/2023/01/02/a-dangerous-disruption/>   
>
> Chris.
>
> On Sunday, 1 January 2023 at 02:34:52 UTC Russell Seitz wrote:
>
>> When I was at MIT, "War Surplus " stores abounded in $5 canned hydrogen 
>>  generators designed to fill radiosonde or  life raft rescue balloons. The 
>> gizmo opened with a can of sardines key  to expose  the calcium hydride 
>> within to sea water, and  filled  the attached 1- meter balloon in about 15 
>> minutes. 
>>
>> Whereupon, it being sunset on the 4th of July on an easterly beach with a 
>> westerly wind, we attached a slow  magnesium ribbon fuse and let it go . it 
>> traveled some miles downwind  and rose perhaps one before exploding with a 
>> pale flash, but no audible pop
>>
>> The current  low cost balloon record seems to be held by   the 22 meter 
>> Le Ballon Air de Paris,  filled with 6,000 m3 (210,000 cu ft) of helium 
>> <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Helium> and  terthered with a cable 
>> winch.  It can board up to 30  tourists, max  total weigh 2,500 kg 
>> (5,500 lb) whom it takes to  150 m (490 ft) above Paris.  for 15 minuteas a 
>> apsesent fare of sixteen Euros a head.
>>
>> Though hardly stratospherics, that works out to $194  a tonne 
>>
>>
>>
>> On Thursday, December 29, 2022 at 6:18:14 AM UTC-5 [email protected] 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Andrew,
>>> I used Hydrogen for 20 years to use for weather balloons.  No problem , 
>>> even when one exploded fir a colleague in a balloon shed ( he has the doors 
>>> firmly closed and there was a leak , which he knew about). Probably 
>>> millions of radiosondes were launched with hydrogen. We had a fusion lab 
>>> where hydrogen was piped around the facility.  However, in the Falklands 
>>> they had a hydrogen making device … ( solid + water).  Now that was 
>>> dangerous.   There was one hole in the ground in africa where a hydrogen 
>>> plant as above had been sited, but using the stuff is a safe.  
>>> obviously , if you plant a bomb nearby , little is safe ( what was the 
>>> actual cause of the hind disaster?) 
>>>
>>> i predict trains / trucks / cars will soon be using the stuff. Far 
>>> greener than Li batteries and I think safer.  Never mind the Co2 output. 
>>>  An electric car costs more to produce as regards Co2 than a small petrol 
>>> car does ( + 70,000) miles of petrol.  i should have bought an H2 car, but 
>>> the problem is there are / were on 11 charging stations in the YK and 8 of 
>>> them were in the M25
>>> A. 
>>>
>>> T ---
>>> Alan Gadian, UK.
>>> Tel: +44 / 0  775 451 9009 
>>> T ---
>>>
>>> On 29 Dec 2022, at 11:05, Andrew Lockley <[email protected]> wrote:
>>>
>>> 
>>>
>>> Large weather balloons don't have much over pressure relative to volume, 
>>> so venting is a challenge. Valves and pumps add weight. Hydrogen has ground 
>>> handling risks, due to flammability (Hindenberg), and any leaks risk 
>>> buoyancy loss and the canopy descending loaded. The most extreme scenario 
>>> is that an out of control failed balloon descends into an enclosed building 
>>> through an open door, skylight, or Courtyard. In windy conditions, drift 
>>> into a small industrial unit is perfectly possible, through the roller 
>>> shutter doors - which could be automatically or accidentally closed behind, 
>>> trapping the balloon and its flammable payload. This could allow a loaded 
>>> canopy to leak out into a fully enclosed space, with ignition risks.
>>>
>>> While such scenarios appear outlandish, with thousands or millions of 
>>> launches, they become real risks.
>>>
>>> Andrew 
>>>
>>> On Thu, 29 Dec 2022, 10:19 Stephen Salter, <[email protected]> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Hi
>>>>
>>>> I do not understand the bit about bursting. Control of a venting valve 
>>>> protects the balloon and allows release at the chosen altitude.
>>>>
>>>> Helium is irreplaceable and needed for super cooling. Is there a reason 
>>>> not to use hydrogen? 
>>>>
>>>> Stephen
>>>>
>>>>  
>>>>
>>>> *Emeritus Professor of Engineering Design*
>>>>
>>>> *School of Engineering*
>>>>
>>>> *University of Edinburgh*
>>>>
>>>> *Mayfield Road*
>>>>
>>>> *Edinburgh EH9 3DW*
>>>>
>>>> *Scotland*
>>>>
>>>> *0131 650 5704 or 0131 662 1180*
>>>>
>>>> *YouTube Jamie Taylor Power for Change*
>>>>
>>>>  
>>>>
>>>>  
>>>>
>>>>  
>>>>
>>>> *From:* [email protected] <[email protected]> *On 
>>>> Behalf Of *Daniele Visioni
>>>> *Sent:* 28 December 2022 23:51
>>>> *To:* [email protected]
>>>> *Cc:* geoengineering <[email protected]>
>>>> *Subject:* Re: [geo] Make Sunsets: Clarifications!
>>>>
>>>>  
>>>>
>>>> *This email was sent to you by someone outside the University.* 
>>>>
>>>> You should only click on links or attachments if you are certain that 
>>>> the email is genuine and the content is safe.
>>>>
>>>> Luke,
>>>>
>>>> I will keep finding this rather murky as long as you keep being so 
>>>> hand-wavy about your numbers and then claiming you can offset a 
>>>> “substantial amount of warming” in your homepage.
>>>>
>>>>  
>>>>
>>>> Weather balloons have different bursting altitudes depending on 1) 
>>>> payload 2) amount of helium used to inflate 3) material.
>>>>
>>>> You can find an example here with a calculator down below that lets you 
>>>> calculate max bursting height based on inflation
>>>>
>>>>  https://www.highaltitudescience.com/products/near-space-balloon-1200-g
>>>>
>>>> Which balloons did you use?
>>>>
>>>> How much did you inflate them?
>>>>
>>>> Did you check with the producer if the mix of SO₂ and He in the balloon 
>>>> would affect their calculations, and if so how?
>>>>
>>>> The forcing we’re talking about changes depending on altitude of 
>>>> release as well: at 19 it’s different than at 25 (and depending on your 
>>>> definition, sometimes the tropopause is above 18km..), and above 29km 
>>>> sulfate aerosols evaporate because temperatures are too high to form 
>>>> liquid 
>>>> aerosols. If the balloon doesn’t burst at the right altitude, what would 
>>>> happen to the oxidized S is not so simple - frankly I don’t know the 
>>>> answer 
>>>> off the top of my head, there are a few factors that could influence this. 
>>>> Do you have studies showing what would happen there based on lack of water 
>>>> vapor and different temperature and OH levels?
>>>>
>>>> If you don’t - and you don’t have any tools to measure it yet - maybe 
>>>> you should at least tone down the claims already present on your website?
>>>>
>>>>  
>>>>
>>>> For some ranges of stratospheric releases of sulfate we have some 
>>>> numbers for SAI we can be somewhat confident about - not just in term of 
>>>> the forcing but in terms of downstream effects on the stratospheric 
>>>> composition - but this may not be true for what you are proposing or 
>>>> claiming you are doing.
>>>>
>>>>  
>>>>
>>>> Lastly, in your Twitter account you claimed in a post 2 days ago that 
>>>> there are “supporters and scientists who believe in you”.  I would avoid 
>>>> claiming you have the support of scientists if you don’t - or show proofs 
>>>> if you do.  As far as any scientist I know is concerned they don’t seem 
>>>> particularly impressed - and your lack of clarity goes against any of the 
>>>> calls for open and transparent research (not to mention inclusive decision 
>>>> making) this community has asked in previous public statements.
>>>>
>>>>  
>>>>
>>>> Daniele 
>>>>
>>>>  
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On 28 Dec 2022, at 18:09, Luke Iseman <[email protected]> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>  
>>>>
>>>> Thanks Andrew, Olivier, Bala, and everyone else for diving in with 
>>>> critiques here. I'm a cofounder of Make Sunsets and want to clarify a few 
>>>> things: 
>>>>
>>>>  
>>>>
>>>> *Honesty: *
>>>>
>>>> We have no desire to mislead anyone. If we make a mistake (which we 
>>>> will), we'll correct it. 
>>>>
>>>> *Radiative Forcing:*
>>>>
>>>> I didn't make this "gram offsets a ton" number up. It comes from David 
>>>> Keith's research:
>>>>
>>>> "a gram of aerosol in the stratosphere, delivered perhaps by 
>>>> high-flying jets, could offset the warming effect of a ton of carbon 
>>>> dioxide, a factor of 1 million to 1." 
>>>> <https://keith.seas.harvard.edu/news/whats-right-temperature-earth>
>>>>
>>>> and, again: "Geoengineering’s leverage is very high—one gram of 
>>>> particles in the stratosphere prevents the warming caused by a ton of 
>>>> carbon dioxide." 
>>>> <https://longnow.org/seminars/02015/feb/17/patient-geoengineering/>
>>>>
>>>> By stating "offsetting the warming effect of 1 ton of carbon for 1 
>>>> year," I was trying to be more conservative than Professor Keith. I am 
>>>> correcting "carbon" to read "carbon dioxide" on the cooling credit 
>>>> description right now, and I'm adding a paragraph at the start of the post 
>>>> stating that estimates vary, but a leading researcher cites a gram 
>>>> offsetting a ton. 
>>>>
>>>> For the several hundred dollars of cooling credits we've already sold, 
>>>> I'll be providing evidence to each purchaser that I've delivered at least 
>>>> 2 
>>>> grams per cooling credit. 
>>>>
>>>> Olivier, or anyone else: I'd be happy to post something by you to our 
>>>> blog explaining what you estimate the radiative forcing of 1g so2 released 
>>>> at 20km altitude from in or near the tropics will be and why. I will 
>>>> include language of your choosing explaining that you in no way endorse 
>>>> what we are doing.
>>>>
>>>> I very much hope to get suggestions from this community on 
>>>> instrumentation we should fly to improve the state of the science here. 
>>>> Again, I'm happy to do this with disclaimers about how researchers we fly 
>>>> things for are not endorsing our efforts. Or even without revealing who 
>>>> the 
>>>> researchers are: we'll fly test instruments and provide data, no questions 
>>>> asked:)
>>>>
>>>> *Telemetry: *
>>>>
>>>> My first 2 flights had no telemetry: in April, this was still in 
>>>> self-funded science project territory. After burning some sulfur and 
>>>> capturing the resultant gas, I placed this in a balloon. I then added 
>>>> helium, underinflating the balloon substantially, and let it go. There is 
>>>> technically a slim possibility that neither of these balloons reached the 
>>>> stratosphere, as I acknowledged to the Technology Review reporter. I will 
>>>> add Spot trackers to my next flights. These cut out at 18km, so I'l be 
>>>> able 
>>>> to confirm that I achieve at least this altitude. If (and this is a big 
>>>> if) 
>>>> I'm able to recover the balloons, I'll have a lot more data from the 
>>>> flight 
>>>> computer 
>>>> <https://www.highaltitudescience.com/collections/electronics/products/eagle-flight-computer>.
>>>>  
>>>> I will eventually switch to Swarms 
>>>> <https://www.sparkfun.com/products/19236?utm_campaign=May%206%2C%202022&utm_medium=email&_hsmi=212205037&_hsenc=p2ANqtz-9EyQOQ6C-9XuSOHa7CggOC8Pf2tEow_Fppo5pXgTHO8-7gV-aHrrYpnPcliws6Ju8j2PBAX3Tkog0oVpwk8XqWX2xo0w&utm_content=212206499&utm_source=hs_email>,
>>>>  
>>>> which should let me transmit more data regardless of balloon recovery.
>>>>
>>>> *Pricing: *
>>>>
>>>> Bala, you're totally right that this should be priced much lower. We're 
>>>> trying to make enough with our early flights to stay in business until we 
>>>> get meaningful traction with customers, and we plan to eventually drop 
>>>> prices to $1 per ton or less.
>>>>
>>>> *Reuse: *
>>>>
>>>> We are not yet reusing balloons, and Andrew is correct that latex UV 
>>>> degradation will limit our ability to do so with weather balloons. Given 
>>>> that balloon cost is our main expense per gram, even a few uses per 
>>>> balloon 
>>>> will dramatically improve the economics here.
>>>>
>>>>  
>>>>
>>>> I expect to disagree with some of you, but I hope we can do so politely 
>>>> and assuming good intentions.
>>>>
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>>>> .
>>>> The University of Edinburgh is a charitable body, registered in 
>>>> Scotland, with registration number SC005336. Is e buidheann carthannais a 
>>>> th’ ann an Oilthigh Dhùn Èideann, clàraichte an Alba, àireamh clàraidh 
>>>> SC005336. 
>>>>
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>>>> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/geoengineering/AM8PR05MB80359D6D052CF2BA3940E360A7F39%40AM8PR05MB8035.eurprd05.prod.outlook.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer>
>>>> .
>>>>
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