Mapmaker seems helpful but not a solution for the problem of finding out enough information about what one needs nearby; even if and when it extends to places where most of us live.
Base layer data aside - I just don't see how it could become the comprehensive repository of place information. How is any silo going to ever be able to answer a broad swath of the kinds of questions that we have of it? Real solutions have to straddle many data sources - mapmaker, openstreetmaps, trails.com, flickr, fireeagle, ranger stations, gps add on packs whatever... I was reminded of this last week when I drove from Portland to San Fran to Portland. I wanted to camp rather than staying at hotels and I tried to search for campsites as I was visiting each area that I considered camping in. My experience I think are typical of what happens to most people when they are searching for something and I think it shows that work remains: 1) On the way down we stopped near Crescent City and tried to find a campsite by using the web - nothing seemed to pop up that was clear and trustworthy. However by pure chance I found a brochure at the closed Ranger Station that did have a little camping icon for a place called Nickel Beach, and this turned out to be just great; free, allowing fires, a short hike at sunset on a bluff over the pacific ocean - it was great - although I didn't find it via the web. 2) On the way back I tried to camp near Grants Pass but could not find anything that I trusted even after searching the web for an hour and driving around and so stayed at a hotel. The next morning I found an outdoors weekly newspaper that did have a map of camping sites in it - unfortunately a bit too late to be useful. I must admit, just now , trying to search for 'campground' using wikimapia - does work: http://wikimapia.org/#lat=41.7067538&lon=-124.1209602&z=13&l=0&m=a&v=2 But note how Google Maps fails to reveal the non-commercial option: http://maps.google.com/maps?um=1&ie=UTF-8&q=campground&near=Crescent+City,+CA&fb=1&view=text&sa=X&oi=local_group&resnum=1&ct=more-results&cd=1 Trails.com is totally useless here - although it does list several other good choices... and anyway it is behind a 'please pay me wall' that makes it unacceptable for general use. http://www.trails.com/advancedfind.asp?GeoSearch=1&lat=41.621564&lon=-124.115388&Distance=20&Activities=CP&area=14071 Other sites do list campgrounds but since there is no map they are totally useless. I just can't go and try search for every possibility to find where it is so those possibilities become unusable: http://www.redwood.national-park.com/camping.htm#bc So my feeling is that if my searches are typical, then we all still have a ways to go... and Mapmaker seems like a part of the ecosystem but not a panacea for my needs at least... the solution seems to be some kind of better indexing with more precise location information, more trust in some way... - anselm On Wed, Jun 25, 2008 at 10:01 AM, Ian White <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > finally, a topic worth discussing! if you want to see what the future of a > goog wiki-map world, india could be a good place to look--sure, they've > provided a valuable service in creating a base map, but at what cost? > anybody know if participants were paid or volunteer? given GPS devices or > loaners? any chance the underlying map data will be released? if i were > google, i sure as hell wouldn't make it available to anybody else--damn > smart and cheap way to get a 'good enough' base map. i'm sure g recognizes > that their 'go it alone approach in a user-contributed world' ain't going to > give them NVT/TA quality data (love it or not, it is high quality) today, > but over time it's something that google may find it doesn't have to pay any > licensing fees for (not that NVT/TA derive much $$$ from the interwebs--it's > under 5% of their business). But...as g begins to move more into different > platforms (android, in car nav (don't forget the VW deal), and direct > acquisition of sat imagery (d! > on't forget this one: > http://mashable.com/2007/07/21/google-image-america/), all your > fears/hopes/dreams may come true! > > > > Ian White :: Urban Mapping Inc > 690 Fifth Street Suite 200 :: San Francisco CA 94107 > T.415.946.8170 x80 :: F.866.385.8266 > blog.urbanmapping.com :: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > ________________________________________ > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] > On Behalf Of James Fee [EMAIL PROTECTED] > Sent: Wednesday, June 25, 2008 9:43 AM > To: [email protected] > Subject: Re: [Geowanking] MapMaker > > Why? To cut out the providers and control the data for themselves. Who > wants to deal with NAVTEQ or others when they can just pay interns to > drive cars around cities of the world and take pictures/GPS or get > Google fan boys to update their maps for free? > > -- > James Fee GISP > RSP Architects > 502 South Collge Avenue, Suite 203, Tempe, AZ 85281 > 480-889-2095 (w) > 602-819-2142 (m) > -----Original Message----- > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Landon Blake > Sent: Wednesday, June 25, 2008 9:38 AM > To: [email protected] > Subject: Re: [Geowanking] MapMaker > > Good point Kevin. In that case, Google's motive does seem a little more > suspect, doesn't it? > > Why would anyone map Bermuda for Google if it was already mapped? > > Landon > > -----Original Message----- > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Kevin Mayall > Sent: Wednesday, June 25, 2008 9:04 AM > To: [email protected] > Subject: Re: [Geowanking] MapMaker > > Let's not assume that the countries listed in Google Map Maker are > "unmapped regions of the world". Bermuda and Cayman, for example, are > very well mapped. Google just doesn't own any data for them. > > Kevin (in Bermuda) > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Landon Blake > Sent: Wednesday, June 25, 2008 12:37 PM > To: [email protected] > Subject: Re: [Geowanking] MapMaker > > I just checked out the Google Map Maker web application this morning. I > was pretty impressed with the simple interface. > > I've always admired the way Google can tackle a problem and design a > slick solution. I don't know how I'd live without my G-Mail. > > Still, there terms of use really bites the big one. Seems to me like > these terms would be a deal killer for a lot of volunteer mappers. (I > sure won't be adding to there database. Why do that when you can > contribute to Open Street Map?) > > It seems like Google is ignoring a principle that can be drawn from open > source software development: absolute control chokes voluntary > contributions. > > I do, however, think that mapping unknown regions of the world will only > benefit society as a whole. If the data is publicly accessible, but > Google makes a dime, is that a horrible thing? They might end up mapping > something that would have never been mapped otherwise. > > Imagine what Google could have accomplished if it had worked with an > organization like OSM to map unmapped regions of the world. It's too bad > they were so short-sighted in this respect. > > The Sunburned Surveyor > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of SteveC > Sent: Tuesday, June 24, 2008 10:51 AM > To: [email protected] > Subject: [Geowanking] MapMaker > > What no mention of GMM on geowanking yet? And I was looking forward to > the disucssion! > > http://www.opengeodata.org/?p=307 > > Best > > Steve > > _______________________________________________ > Geowanking mailing list > [email protected] > http://lists.burri.to/mailman/listinfo/geowanking > > > Warning: > Information provided via electronic media is not guaranteed against > defects including translation and transmission errors. If the reader is > not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any > dissemination, distribution or copying of this communication is strictly > prohibited. If you have received this information in error, please > notify the sender immediately. > _______________________________________________ > Geowanking mailing list > [email protected] > http://lists.burri.to/mailman/listinfo/geowanking > _______________________________________________ > Geowanking mailing list > [email protected] > http://lists.burri.to/mailman/listinfo/geowanking > _______________________________________________ > Geowanking mailing list > [email protected] > http://lists.burri.to/mailman/listinfo/geowanking > _______________________________________________ > Geowanking mailing list > [email protected] > http://lists.burri.to/mailman/listinfo/geowanking > _______________________________________________ > Geowanking mailing list > [email protected] > http://lists.burri.to/mailman/listinfo/geowanking > -- anselm 415 215 4856 http://hook.org http://makerlab.com
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