oh i'll take a look at fixing this - just trying to test the limits of the broader issue of letting people search for things...
the broader issue was that of looking at mapmaker; this was mostly in that light of where the industry was as a whole -me On Wed, Jun 25, 2008 at 8:18 PM, SteveC <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > It's free as in 'you can fix it' :-) > > Yes there are niche sites as Richard says. And if the search sucks, > sorry, but it's all open source and you can prod the authors or help > them code it. I've cc'd David Earl who might be able to fix. > > David - could you make '"campsites near topanga, ca"' work please? :-) > > > On 25 Jun 2008, at 14:55, Tom Longson (nym) wrote: > > > Currently I'm just not sure how to use OSM with these specific things > > in mind. How do I use OSM to find campsites anyways? Does one have to > > code a custom tool to do this, or is this part of openstreetmap's > > website and I just haven't found it? The best I've been able to do is > > type in "campsite" into the search, and get global results of > > campsites, which doesn't solve my question of finding a campsite to > > camp at this weekend within 100 miles of me. One of the ones I did > > look at through OSM's search results, "Brewster's Cabin", is > > unfindable via organic search > > > > Steve, are people building niche sites on top of OSM, like one that is > > designed to only show trails and camps, or other things like that? It > > seems like the best way to encourage this kind of behavior is to have > > the massive clearinghouse horizontal (OSM), and then build up specific > > verticals, such as campers, bikers, environmentalists, etc, possibly > > as a category list on openstreetmap.org itself. I'm not sure people > > even realize they can search for this kind of thing, or that they can > > add it to OSM at all. I for one, would love to see openstreetmap.org > > come up the next time I do a search for "campsites near topanga, ca". > > > > Would love to know what you think, > > Tom Longson (nym) > > http://truefalsemaybe.com/ > > > > On Wed, Jun 25, 2008 at 1:56 PM, SteveC <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > >> Naturally you added all this info in to OSM right? :-P > >> > >> http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/index.php/Tag:tourism%3Dcamp_site > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> On 25 Jun 2008, at 12:12, Anselm Hook wrote: > >> > >>> Mapmaker seems helpful but not a solution for the problem of finding > >>> out enough information about what one needs nearby; even if and when > >>> it extends to places where most of us live. > >>> > >>> Base layer data aside - I just don't see how it could become the > >>> comprehensive repository of place information. How is any silo > >>> going to ever be able to answer a broad swath of the kinds of > >>> questions that we have of it? Real solutions have to straddle many > >>> data sources - mapmaker, openstreetmaps, trails.com, flickr, > >>> fireeagle, ranger stations, gps add on packs whatever... > >>> > >>> I was reminded of this last week when I drove from Portland to San > >>> Fran to Portland. I wanted to camp rather than staying at hotels > >>> and I tried to search for campsites as I was visiting each area that > >>> I considered camping in. My experience I think are typical of what > >>> happens to most people when they are searching for something and I > >>> think it shows that work remains: > >>> > >>> 1) On the way down we stopped near Crescent City and tried to find a > >>> campsite by using the web - nothing seemed to pop up that was clear > >>> and trustworthy. However by pure chance I found a brochure at the > >>> closed Ranger Station that did have a little camping icon for a > >>> place called Nickel Beach, and this turned out to be just great; > >>> free, allowing fires, a short hike at sunset on a bluff over the > >>> pacific ocean - it was great - although I didn't find it via the > >>> web. > >>> > >>> 2) On the way back I tried to camp near Grants Pass but could not > >>> find anything that I trusted even after searching the web for an > >>> hour and driving around and so stayed at a hotel. The next morning > >>> I found an outdoors weekly newspaper that did have a map of camping > >>> sites in it - unfortunately a bit too late to be useful. > >>> > >>> I must admit, just now , trying to search for 'campground' using > >>> wikimapia - does work: > >>> > >>> http://wikimapia.org/ > >>> #lat=41.7067538&lon=-124.1209602&z=13&l=0&m=a&v=2 > >>> > >>> But note how Google Maps fails to reveal the non-commercial option: > >>> > >>> > http://maps.google.com/maps?um=1&ie=UTF-8&q=campground&near=Crescent+City,+CA&fb=1&view=text&sa=X&oi=local_group&resnum=1&ct=more-results&cd=1 > >>> > >>> Trails.com is totally useless here - although it does list several > >>> other good choices... and anyway it is behind a 'please pay me wall' > >>> that makes it unacceptable for general use. > >>> > >>> > http://www.trails.com/advancedfind.asp?GeoSearch=1&lat=41.621564&lon=-124.115388&Distance=20&Activities=CP&area=14071 > >>> > >>> Other sites do list campgrounds but since there is no map they are > >>> totally useless. I just can't go and try search for every > >>> possibility to find where it is so those possibilities become > >>> unusable: > >>> > >>> http://www.redwood.national-park.com/camping.htm#bc > >>> > >>> So my feeling is that if my searches are typical, then we all still > >>> have a ways to go... and Mapmaker seems like a part of the > >>> ecosystem but not a panacea for my needs at least... the solution > >>> seems to be some kind of better indexing with more precise location > >>> information, more trust in some way... > >>> > >>> - anselm > >>> > >>> On Wed, Jun 25, 2008 at 10:01 AM, Ian White <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > >>> wrote: > >>> finally, a topic worth discussing! if you want to see what the > >>> future of a goog wiki-map world, india could be a good place to > >>> look--sure, they've provided a valuable service in creating a base > >>> map, but at what cost? anybody know if participants were paid or > >>> volunteer? given GPS devices or loaners? any chance the underlying > >>> map data will be released? if i were google, i sure as hell wouldn't > >>> make it available to anybody else--damn smart and cheap way to get a > >>> 'good enough' base map. i'm sure g recognizes that their 'go it > >>> alone approach in a user-contributed world' ain't going to give them > >>> NVT/TA quality data (love it or not, it is high quality) today, but > >>> over time it's something that google may find it doesn't have to pay > >>> any licensing fees for (not that NVT/TA derive much $$$ from the > >>> interwebs--it's under 5% of their business). But...as g begins to > >>> move more into different platforms (android, in car nav (don't > >>> forget the VW deal), and direct acquisition of sat imagery (d! > >>> on't forget this one: > http://mashable.com/2007/07/21/google-image-america/) > >>> , all your fears/hopes/dreams may come true! > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> Ian White :: Urban Mapping Inc > >>> 690 Fifth Street Suite 200 :: San Francisco CA 94107 > >>> T.415.946.8170 x80 :: F.866.385.8266 > >>> blog.urbanmapping.com :: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > >>> > >>> ________________________________________ > >>> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [ > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > >>> ] On Behalf Of James Fee [EMAIL PROTECTED] > >>> Sent: Wednesday, June 25, 2008 9:43 AM > >>> To: [email protected] > >>> Subject: Re: [Geowanking] MapMaker > >>> > >>> Why? To cut out the providers and control the data for themselves. > >>> Who > >>> wants to deal with NAVTEQ or others when they can just pay interns > >>> to > >>> drive cars around cities of the world and take pictures/GPS or get > >>> Google fan boys to update their maps for free? > >>> > >>> -- > >>> James Fee GISP > >>> RSP Architects > >>> 502 South Collge Avenue, Suite 203, Tempe, AZ 85281 > >>> 480-889-2095 (w) > >>> 602-819-2142 (m) > >>> -----Original Message----- > >>> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > >>> [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Landon Blake > >>> Sent: Wednesday, June 25, 2008 9:38 AM > >>> To: [email protected] > >>> Subject: Re: [Geowanking] MapMaker > >>> > >>> Good point Kevin. In that case, Google's motive does seem a little > >>> more > >>> suspect, doesn't it? > >>> > >>> Why would anyone map Bermuda for Google if it was already mapped? > >>> > >>> Landon > >>> > >>> -----Original Message----- > >>> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > >>> [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Kevin Mayall > >>> Sent: Wednesday, June 25, 2008 9:04 AM > >>> To: [email protected] > >>> Subject: Re: [Geowanking] MapMaker > >>> > >>> Let's not assume that the countries listed in Google Map Maker are > >>> "unmapped regions of the world". Bermuda and Cayman, for example, > >>> are > >>> very well mapped. Google just doesn't own any data for them. > >>> > >>> Kevin (in Bermuda) > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> -----Original Message----- > >>> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > >>> [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Landon Blake > >>> Sent: Wednesday, June 25, 2008 12:37 PM > >>> To: [email protected] > >>> Subject: Re: [Geowanking] MapMaker > >>> > >>> I just checked out the Google Map Maker web application this > >>> morning. I > >>> was pretty impressed with the simple interface. > >>> > >>> I've always admired the way Google can tackle a problem and design a > >>> slick solution. I don't know how I'd live without my G-Mail. > >>> > >>> Still, there terms of use really bites the big one. Seems to me like > >>> these terms would be a deal killer for a lot of volunteer mappers. > >>> (I > >>> sure won't be adding to there database. Why do that when you can > >>> contribute to Open Street Map?) > >>> > >>> It seems like Google is ignoring a principle that can be drawn from > >>> open > >>> source software development: absolute control chokes voluntary > >>> contributions. > >>> > >>> I do, however, think that mapping unknown regions of the world will > >>> only > >>> benefit society as a whole. If the data is publicly accessible, but > >>> Google makes a dime, is that a horrible thing? They might end up > >>> mapping > >>> something that would have never been mapped otherwise. > >>> > >>> Imagine what Google could have accomplished if it had worked with an > >>> organization like OSM to map unmapped regions of the world. It's too > >>> bad > >>> they were so short-sighted in this respect. > >>> > >>> The Sunburned Surveyor > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> -----Original Message----- > >>> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > >>> [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of SteveC > >>> Sent: Tuesday, June 24, 2008 10:51 AM > >>> To: [email protected] > >>> Subject: [Geowanking] MapMaker > >>> > >>> What no mention of GMM on geowanking yet? And I was looking > >>> forward to > >>> the disucssion! > >>> > >>> http://www.opengeodata.org/?p=307 > >>> > >>> Best > >>> > >>> Steve > >>> > >>> _______________________________________________ > >>> Geowanking mailing list > >>> [email protected] > >>> http://lists.burri.to/mailman/listinfo/geowanking > >>> > >>> > >>> Warning: > >>> Information provided via electronic media is not guaranteed against > >>> defects including translation and transmission errors. If the reader > >>> is > >>> not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any > >>> dissemination, distribution or copying of this communication is > >>> strictly > >>> prohibited. If you have received this information in error, please > >>> notify the sender immediately. > >>> _______________________________________________ > >>> Geowanking mailing list > >>> [email protected] > >>> http://lists.burri.to/mailman/listinfo/geowanking > >>> _______________________________________________ > >>> Geowanking mailing list > >>> [email protected] > >>> http://lists.burri.to/mailman/listinfo/geowanking > >>> _______________________________________________ > >>> Geowanking mailing list > >>> [email protected] > >>> http://lists.burri.to/mailman/listinfo/geowanking > >>> _______________________________________________ > >>> Geowanking mailing list > >>> [email protected] > >>> http://lists.burri.to/mailman/listinfo/geowanking > >>> _______________________________________________ > >>> Geowanking mailing list > >>> [email protected] > >>> http://lists.burri.to/mailman/listinfo/geowanking > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> -- > >>> anselm 415 215 4856 http://hook.org http://makerlab.com > >>> _______________________________________________ > >>> Geowanking mailing list > >>> [email protected] > >>> http://lists.burri.to/mailman/listinfo/geowanking > >> > >> Best > >> > >> Steve > >> > >> _______________________________________________ > >> Geowanking mailing list > >> [email protected] > >> http://lists.burri.to/mailman/listinfo/geowanking > >> > > _______________________________________________ > > Geowanking mailing list > > [email protected] > > http://lists.burri.to/mailman/listinfo/geowanking > > > > Best > > Steve > > _______________________________________________ > Geowanking mailing list > [email protected] > http://lists.burri.to/mailman/listinfo/geowanking > -- anselm 415 215 4856 http://hook.org http://makerlab.com
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