Hi, On Fri, Apr 24, 2020 at 10:09 PM Tres Finocchiaro < tres.finocchi...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Thanks for the info. I'll comb the CI in the next week looking for the > download. Circle-CI recently changed it's retention policy so if I need to > re-fire a build, I'll jump on IRC and introduce myself. > > Note, I only use IRC as-needed since it requires an always-on connection > or cralwing service to read backlogs, but I'm not afraid to jump on. > > Also, I'm a pretty big fan of Gimp. Switched to it exclusively for raster > about 12 years ago, I'm also the one that whistleblew Sourceforge on their > BS, getting this junkware removed: > https://slashdot.org/submission/4471377/sf-says-adware-bundled-with-gimp-is-intentional > > Anyway, I'll start diving into the CI this next week and post any > high-level progress here. I realize I'm on the user's list (and that's OK) > but I'll try to be kind as to not overwhelm it with dev-related convo. :D > Didn't realize this was the user list. Maybe we can continue the discussion in the developer list instead (to subscribe, if not already: https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gimp-developer-list) and/or IRC of course. Jehan > -Tres > > > - tres.finocchi...@gmail.com > > > On Fri, Apr 24, 2020 at 3:52 PM Jehan Pagès <jehan.marmott...@gmail.com> > wrote: > >> Hi! >> >> On Fri, Apr 24, 2020 at 9:19 PM Tres Finocchiaro < >> tres.finocchi...@gmail.com> wrote: >> >>> > he had issues with the new "hardening" rules of macOS >>> >>> >>> Although I'm very familiar with notarization and stapling >>> <https://stackoverflow.com/a/53528020/3196753>, the hardened runtimes >>> require a much deeper understanding of C++, so my efforts would likely be >>> futile. >>> >> >> Normally our builds now are notarized, signed and whatnot (I understand >> there are several security layers?) nowadays. We use the Apple ID of GNOME >> (contact Neil McGovern). If needed at some point, we can put you in contact. >> >> >>> I see the build system is 10.9+ (notarization requires a minimum of >>> 10.9, so this is good) however in my experience, the dependencies are a >>> nightmare when targeting older macOSs. My strategy has been to chain a >>> bunch of custom steps >>> <https://github.com/LMMS/lmms/wiki/Dependencies-MacOS#108-custom-steps> >>> although >>> I'm curious how this is done using Gimp. At a glance, it appears (perhaps) >>> the dependency listing is simpler. I see a macos-specific gtk script, that >>> must be doing a lot of the work. >>> >> >> Yeah it's based on: https://gitlab.gnome.org/GNOME/gtk-osx >> Alex had a GIMP-specific fork: >> https://gitlab.gnome.org/samm-git/gtk-osx/tree/gimp >> But it's all written in the README, so you probably read it already. >> >> As for the minimum system, initially we were targetting 10.10+ (we try to >> not support OS even unsupported by their developers, i.e. here Apple. And >> actually even 10.10 is not supported anymore by now, according to >> Wikipedia). Cf. >> https://gitlab.gnome.org/GNOME/gimp/-/blob/gimp-2-10/devel-docs/os-support.txt >> But (if I recall) Alex was saying that supporting 10.9 was not much more >> difficult so we kept as-is at least until things ended up impossible (in >> which case we'd bump up the requirement). >> >> There is also the fact that each time we drop support for an older >> Windows or macOS, we get a lot of hate from people. Of course this doesn't >> stop us but still. Let's say that if we have no reason to break support >> (i.e. doesn't make our life harder), why do it? 🙂 >> This being said, if our macOS contributor(s) consider that we have to >> drop support of old version X or Y of macOS for whatever good reason, we'll >> just do it. The doers are basically maintainers of their own part. 😉 >> >> >>> I spot some similarities, such as upstream bugs with otool tools >>> <https://github.com/jralls/gtk-mac-bundler/pull/10>, leveraging a 3rd >>> party dmg creator <https://github.com/andreyvit/create-dmg> (I've used >>> app-dmg instead) but at a glance, the build system appears to be completely >>> automated including signing and notarizing. >>> >> >> I think it is, since I can see steps "Importing signing certificate", >> "Creating >> DMG package" and "Notarizing DMG package" in the CI. >> >> >>> If testing the installer is the next steps before publishing, I can >>> offer that by fetching the URL from the CI logs. >>> >> >> I indeed know the DMG is made available on CircleCI and can be downloaded >> in the "Artifacts" tab of builds. Maybe you'd need an account to see this, >> no idea. Do you see the DMG link? >> >> >>> I'm only a casual Gimp user though, so I'd be weary of passing a build >>> as good on instinct alone. Do you have a QC spreadsheet or is it more of a >>> best-effort basis? >>> >> >> To be clear, we have no idea. If this is not in the repository, it means >> that either Alex had not documented it (yet?) or it was just in his head. >> He has been the only one working on GIMP on macOS for like the last 2 years >> (and before him, we had another contributor who was also alone for many >> years; it seems we never manage to get more than 1 macOS dev at a time! 😕). >> >> I guess you could start creating a QC steps howto and contribute it to >> the repo once you are done. :-) >> >> Sorry to not be of much help, but this is just how much we know nothing >> macOS-related. >> >> Alex's notes are stellar btw. >>> >> >> Nice to read. He did put a lot of time and effort on this. We are >> extremely thankful to him (and to any contributor for that matter!). >> >> Note, I use Gimp on macOS Catalina Developer Beta so I'll know right away >>> if the app or a particular feature is blocked and I'm more likely to have >>> stricter (beta) hardening as Apple makes changes to the OS. >>> >> >> Cool. :-) >> >> Jehan >> >> >>> -Tres >>> >>> - tres.finocchi...@gmail.com >>> >>> >>> On Fri, Apr 24, 2020 at 2:55 PM Jehan Pagès <jehan.marmott...@gmail.com> >>> wrote: >>> >>>> Hi Tres, >>>> >>>> On Fri, Apr 24, 2020 at 7:34 PM Tres Finocchiaro < >>>> tres.finocchi...@gmail.com> wrote: >>>> >>>>> Jehan, >>>>> >>>>> I'm the macOS packager for LMMS. I might be able to help out in his >>>>> absence. LMMS is written in Qt, so the dependency stack is much >>>>> different than Gimp which is Gtk, but if there's a documented build >>>>> process >>>>> via MacPorts or Homebrew, I can take a swing at it. >>>>> >>>> >>>> I know there are non-official MacPorts and Homebrew because it's >>>> written on our website. So these can be good references indeed. >>>> >>>> Ideally we want the build scripts to be public and the build itself to >>>> also be public (not happen on someone's computer for obvious reasons). This >>>> is why Alex (our macOS contributor) has done a lot of work on the build >>>> repository: https://gitlab.gnome.org/Infrastructure/gimp-macos-build >>>> It would be nice if continuing work were to happen on this same >>>> repository. >>>> >>>> As for the build itself, it was happening on some CI service called >>>> CircleCI (because macOS builds can be done there, unlike the GNOME Gitlab >>>> CI machines). Builds are there: >>>> https://circleci.com/gh/GNOME/gimp-macos-build >>>> >>>> Note: you'll notice that there are builds for GIMP 2.10.18 there, which >>>> was from last time Alex was working on it. We don't really know the state >>>> and in particular if these builds done 2 months ago work well and safely, >>>> since none of us (but Alex) even has an Apple machine so we cannot test and >>>> won't recklessly make public completely untested DMG packages. >>>> >>>> Last we heard from Alex, he had issues with the new "hardening" rules >>>> of macOS. Basically it made it impossible to run a debugger (lldb), which >>>> is what GIMP tries to do to self-debug when it crashes or encounter >>>> critical errors (a debug feature introduced in GIMP 2.10). >>>> I'm not sure he actually fixed it before going off-radar. If he didn't >>>> and the solution is too complicated, a possibility is to not care about >>>> this self-debugging feature of course. It's annoying if it doesn't work >>>> (because it makes reporting/fixing bugs easier), but it is better to have a >>>> package without the feature than none obviously. :-) >>>> >>>> In any case, we will definitely welcome the help. Feel free to look at >>>> the scripts and propose patches/merge requests. I'm not sure if an access >>>> is needed to CircleCI project to see the build details (artifacts, logs and >>>> whatnot). Maybe just connecting with a github account is enough. If not, >>>> we'll try to figure this out. >>>> >>>> Oh and last thing, if you have questions, the #gimp IRC channel on >>>> irc.gimp.org is a good place where you can find most developers. >>>> Thanks! >>>> >>>> Jehan >>>> >>>> Credentials: https://github.com/LMMS/lmms/pull/2271 >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> -Tres >>>>> >>>>> - tres.finocchi...@gmail.com >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> On Fri, Apr 24, 2020 at 1:11 PM Jehan Pagès via gimp-user-list < >>>>> gimp-user-list@gnome.org> wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> Hello, >>>>>> >>>>>> On Fri, Apr 24, 2020 at 8:16 AM Maurizio Loreti via gimp-user-list < >>>>>> gimp-user-list@gnome.org> wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>> > Any foresight for an implementation of GIMP 2.10.18 for MacOS? [I >>>>>> mean >>>>>> > official, not MacPorts (that uses XQuartz) nor Partha's]. >>>>>> > >>>>>> >>>>>> Isn't it you who already asked at least twice the same thing? The >>>>>> answer is >>>>>> still the same as we told you several times already. Our (unique!) >>>>>> macOS >>>>>> contributor has not been available for like more than a month. And to >>>>>> be >>>>>> fair, I don't care as much about the macOS version of GIMP as I am >>>>>> worried >>>>>> about this contributor and hoping he (and his family) is still fine >>>>>> as we >>>>>> get no news. >>>>>> >>>>>> Since you knew already about the situation, a bit of compassion would >>>>>> not >>>>>> be a bad thing. >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> > If GIMP has problems with MacOS, what are these problems? >>>>>> > >>>>>> >>>>>> Isn't *no contributor* enough of a problem by itself? The problem is >>>>>> that >>>>>> nobody seem to care enough to help this package happen (only enough to >>>>>> **ask** for it apparently). We have called for contributors so many >>>>>> times >>>>>> over the years (and again recently, so much there has even been a >>>>>> French >>>>>> specialized mac-news website who relayed the call a few weeks ago!). >>>>>> This contributor could be you if you want to help packaging! >>>>>> The current version of scripts are there: >>>>>> https://gitlab.gnome.org/Infrastructure/gimp-macos-build >>>>>> >>>>>> There are only 3 possible outcomes: >>>>>> 1/ This contributor finally comes back and he continues *alone* 😢 to >>>>>> do >>>>>> all the mac packaging. >>>>>> 2/ Other people finally show they care by contributing. >>>>>> 3/ A mix of 1/ and 2/ which is the best outcome! >>>>>> >>>>>> In none of these scenarios just asking without contributing helps in >>>>>> any >>>>>> way. >>>>>> Thanks for either helping or understanding. 🙂 >>>>>> >>>>>> Jehan >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> > -- >>>>>> > Maurizio Loreti -- maurizio.lor...@gmail.com >>>>>> > _______________________________________________ >>>>>> > gimp-user-list mailing list >>>>>> > List address: gimp-user-list@gnome.org >>>>>> > List membership: >>>>>> https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gimp-user-list >>>>>> > List archives: https://mail.gnome.org/archives/gimp-user-list >>>>>> > >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> -- >>>>>> ZeMarmot open animation film >>>>>> http://film.zemarmot.net >>>>>> Liberapay: https://liberapay.com/ZeMarmot/ >>>>>> Patreon: https://patreon.com/zemarmot >>>>>> Tipeee: https://www.tipeee.com/zemarmot >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> gimp-user-list mailing list >>>>>> List address: gimp-user-list@gnome.org >>>>>> List membership: >>>>>> https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gimp-user-list >>>>>> List archives: https://mail.gnome.org/archives/gimp-user-list >>>>>> >>>>> >>>> >>>> -- >>>> ZeMarmot open animation film >>>> http://film.zemarmot.net >>>> Liberapay: https://liberapay.com/ZeMarmot/ >>>> Patreon: https://patreon.com/zemarmot >>>> Tipeee: https://www.tipeee.com/zemarmot >>>> >>> >> >> -- >> ZeMarmot open animation film >> http://film.zemarmot.net >> Liberapay: https://liberapay.com/ZeMarmot/ >> Patreon: https://patreon.com/zemarmot >> Tipeee: https://www.tipeee.com/zemarmot >> > -- ZeMarmot open animation film http://film.zemarmot.net Liberapay: https://liberapay.com/ZeMarmot/ Patreon: https://patreon.com/zemarmot Tipeee: https://www.tipeee.com/zemarmot _______________________________________________ gimp-user-list mailing list List address: gimp-user-list@gnome.org List membership: https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gimp-user-list List archives: https://mail.gnome.org/archives/gimp-user-list
