I see some new patches arriving which suggests there's some new activity on the Mac port (SDK 10.9 -> 10.10), etc. I'll jump on the developer list as suggested although from what I'm seeing there's -- what appears to be -- progress so it'll be more for the purposes of familiarizing with the build system in the event my assistance is needed.
- tres.finocchi...@gmail.com On Sat, Apr 25, 2020 at 3:14 PM Jehan Pagès <jehan.marmott...@gmail.com> wrote: > Hi, > > On Fri, Apr 24, 2020 at 10:09 PM Tres Finocchiaro < > tres.finocchi...@gmail.com> wrote: > >> Thanks for the info. I'll comb the CI in the next week looking for the >> download. Circle-CI recently changed it's retention policy so if I need to >> re-fire a build, I'll jump on IRC and introduce myself. >> >> Note, I only use IRC as-needed since it requires an always-on connection >> or cralwing service to read backlogs, but I'm not afraid to jump on. >> >> Also, I'm a pretty big fan of Gimp. Switched to it exclusively for >> raster about 12 years ago, I'm also the one that whistleblew Sourceforge on >> their BS, getting this junkware removed: >> https://slashdot.org/submission/4471377/sf-says-adware-bundled-with-gimp-is-intentional >> >> Anyway, I'll start diving into the CI this next week and post any >> high-level progress here. I realize I'm on the user's list (and that's OK) >> but I'll try to be kind as to not overwhelm it with dev-related convo. :D >> > > Didn't realize this was the user list. Maybe we can continue the > discussion in the developer list instead (to subscribe, if not already: > https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gimp-developer-list) and/or IRC > of course. > > Jehan > > >> -Tres >> >> >> - tres.finocchi...@gmail.com >> >> >> On Fri, Apr 24, 2020 at 3:52 PM Jehan Pagès <jehan.marmott...@gmail.com> >> wrote: >> >>> Hi! >>> >>> On Fri, Apr 24, 2020 at 9:19 PM Tres Finocchiaro < >>> tres.finocchi...@gmail.com> wrote: >>> >>>> > he had issues with the new "hardening" rules of macOS >>>> >>>> >>>> Although I'm very familiar with notarization and stapling >>>> <https://stackoverflow.com/a/53528020/3196753>, the hardened runtimes >>>> require a much deeper understanding of C++, so my efforts would likely be >>>> futile. >>>> >>> >>> Normally our builds now are notarized, signed and whatnot (I understand >>> there are several security layers?) nowadays. We use the Apple ID of GNOME >>> (contact Neil McGovern). If needed at some point, we can put you in contact. >>> >>> >>>> I see the build system is 10.9+ (notarization requires a minimum of >>>> 10.9, so this is good) however in my experience, the dependencies are a >>>> nightmare when targeting older macOSs. My strategy has been to chain a >>>> bunch of custom steps >>>> <https://github.com/LMMS/lmms/wiki/Dependencies-MacOS#108-custom-steps> >>>> although >>>> I'm curious how this is done using Gimp. At a glance, it appears (perhaps) >>>> the dependency listing is simpler. I see a macos-specific gtk script, that >>>> must be doing a lot of the work. >>>> >>> >>> Yeah it's based on: https://gitlab.gnome.org/GNOME/gtk-osx >>> Alex had a GIMP-specific fork: >>> https://gitlab.gnome.org/samm-git/gtk-osx/tree/gimp >>> But it's all written in the README, so you probably read it already. >>> >>> As for the minimum system, initially we were targetting 10.10+ (we try >>> to not support OS even unsupported by their developers, i.e. here Apple. >>> And actually even 10.10 is not supported anymore by now, according to >>> Wikipedia). Cf. >>> https://gitlab.gnome.org/GNOME/gimp/-/blob/gimp-2-10/devel-docs/os-support.txt >>> But (if I recall) Alex was saying that supporting 10.9 was not much more >>> difficult so we kept as-is at least until things ended up impossible (in >>> which case we'd bump up the requirement). >>> >>> There is also the fact that each time we drop support for an older >>> Windows or macOS, we get a lot of hate from people. Of course this doesn't >>> stop us but still. Let's say that if we have no reason to break support >>> (i.e. doesn't make our life harder), why do it? 🙂 >>> This being said, if our macOS contributor(s) consider that we have to >>> drop support of old version X or Y of macOS for whatever good reason, we'll >>> just do it. The doers are basically maintainers of their own part. 😉 >>> >>> >>>> I spot some similarities, such as upstream bugs with otool tools >>>> <https://github.com/jralls/gtk-mac-bundler/pull/10>, leveraging a 3rd >>>> party dmg creator <https://github.com/andreyvit/create-dmg> (I've used >>>> app-dmg instead) but at a glance, the build system appears to be completely >>>> automated including signing and notarizing. >>>> >>> >>> I think it is, since I can see steps "Importing signing certificate", >>> "Creating >>> DMG package" and "Notarizing DMG package" in the CI. >>> >>> >>>> If testing the installer is the next steps before publishing, I can >>>> offer that by fetching the URL from the CI logs. >>>> >>> >>> I indeed know the DMG is made available on CircleCI and can be >>> downloaded in the "Artifacts" tab of builds. Maybe you'd need an account to >>> see this, no idea. Do you see the DMG link? >>> >>> >>>> I'm only a casual Gimp user though, so I'd be weary of passing a build >>>> as good on instinct alone. Do you have a QC spreadsheet or is it more of a >>>> best-effort basis? >>>> >>> >>> To be clear, we have no idea. If this is not in the repository, it means >>> that either Alex had not documented it (yet?) or it was just in his head. >>> He has been the only one working on GIMP on macOS for like the last 2 years >>> (and before him, we had another contributor who was also alone for many >>> years; it seems we never manage to get more than 1 macOS dev at a time! 😕). >>> >>> I guess you could start creating a QC steps howto and contribute it to >>> the repo once you are done. :-) >>> >>> Sorry to not be of much help, but this is just how much we know nothing >>> macOS-related. >>> >>> Alex's notes are stellar btw. >>>> >>> >>> Nice to read. He did put a lot of time and effort on this. We are >>> extremely thankful to him (and to any contributor for that matter!). >>> >>> Note, I use Gimp on macOS Catalina Developer Beta so I'll know right >>>> away if the app or a particular feature is blocked and I'm more likely to >>>> have stricter (beta) hardening as Apple makes changes to the OS. >>>> >>> >>> Cool. :-) >>> >>> Jehan >>> >>> >>>> -Tres >>>> >>>> - tres.finocchi...@gmail.com >>>> >>>> >>>> On Fri, Apr 24, 2020 at 2:55 PM Jehan Pagès <jehan.marmott...@gmail.com> >>>> wrote: >>>> >>>>> Hi Tres, >>>>> >>>>> On Fri, Apr 24, 2020 at 7:34 PM Tres Finocchiaro < >>>>> tres.finocchi...@gmail.com> wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> Jehan, >>>>>> >>>>>> I'm the macOS packager for LMMS. I might be able to help out in his >>>>>> absence. LMMS is written in Qt, so the dependency stack is much >>>>>> different than Gimp which is Gtk, but if there's a documented build >>>>>> process >>>>>> via MacPorts or Homebrew, I can take a swing at it. >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> I know there are non-official MacPorts and Homebrew because it's >>>>> written on our website. So these can be good references indeed. >>>>> >>>>> Ideally we want the build scripts to be public and the build itself to >>>>> also be public (not happen on someone's computer for obvious reasons). >>>>> This >>>>> is why Alex (our macOS contributor) has done a lot of work on the build >>>>> repository: https://gitlab.gnome.org/Infrastructure/gimp-macos-build >>>>> It would be nice if continuing work were to happen on this same >>>>> repository. >>>>> >>>>> As for the build itself, it was happening on some CI service called >>>>> CircleCI (because macOS builds can be done there, unlike the GNOME Gitlab >>>>> CI machines). Builds are there: >>>>> https://circleci.com/gh/GNOME/gimp-macos-build >>>>> >>>>> Note: you'll notice that there are builds for GIMP 2.10.18 there, >>>>> which was from last time Alex was working on it. We don't really know the >>>>> state and in particular if these builds done 2 months ago work well and >>>>> safely, since none of us (but Alex) even has an Apple machine so we cannot >>>>> test and won't recklessly make public completely untested DMG packages. >>>>> >>>>> Last we heard from Alex, he had issues with the new "hardening" rules >>>>> of macOS. Basically it made it impossible to run a debugger (lldb), which >>>>> is what GIMP tries to do to self-debug when it crashes or encounter >>>>> critical errors (a debug feature introduced in GIMP 2.10). >>>>> I'm not sure he actually fixed it before going off-radar. If he didn't >>>>> and the solution is too complicated, a possibility is to not care about >>>>> this self-debugging feature of course. It's annoying if it doesn't work >>>>> (because it makes reporting/fixing bugs easier), but it is better to have >>>>> a >>>>> package without the feature than none obviously. :-) >>>>> >>>>> In any case, we will definitely welcome the help. Feel free to look at >>>>> the scripts and propose patches/merge requests. I'm not sure if an access >>>>> is needed to CircleCI project to see the build details (artifacts, logs >>>>> and >>>>> whatnot). Maybe just connecting with a github account is enough. If not, >>>>> we'll try to figure this out. >>>>> >>>>> Oh and last thing, if you have questions, the #gimp IRC channel on >>>>> irc.gimp.org is a good place where you can find most developers. >>>>> Thanks! >>>>> >>>>> Jehan >>>>> >>>>> Credentials: https://github.com/LMMS/lmms/pull/2271 >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> -Tres >>>>>> >>>>>> - tres.finocchi...@gmail.com >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> On Fri, Apr 24, 2020 at 1:11 PM Jehan Pagès via gimp-user-list < >>>>>> gimp-user-list@gnome.org> wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>>> Hello, >>>>>>> >>>>>>> On Fri, Apr 24, 2020 at 8:16 AM Maurizio Loreti via gimp-user-list < >>>>>>> gimp-user-list@gnome.org> wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>> > Any foresight for an implementation of GIMP 2.10.18 for MacOS? [I >>>>>>> mean >>>>>>> > official, not MacPorts (that uses XQuartz) nor Partha's]. >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Isn't it you who already asked at least twice the same thing? The >>>>>>> answer is >>>>>>> still the same as we told you several times already. Our (unique!) >>>>>>> macOS >>>>>>> contributor has not been available for like more than a month. And >>>>>>> to be >>>>>>> fair, I don't care as much about the macOS version of GIMP as I am >>>>>>> worried >>>>>>> about this contributor and hoping he (and his family) is still fine >>>>>>> as we >>>>>>> get no news. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Since you knew already about the situation, a bit of compassion >>>>>>> would not >>>>>>> be a bad thing. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> > If GIMP has problems with MacOS, what are these problems? >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Isn't *no contributor* enough of a problem by itself? The problem is >>>>>>> that >>>>>>> nobody seem to care enough to help this package happen (only enough >>>>>>> to >>>>>>> **ask** for it apparently). We have called for contributors so many >>>>>>> times >>>>>>> over the years (and again recently, so much there has even been a >>>>>>> French >>>>>>> specialized mac-news website who relayed the call a few weeks ago!). >>>>>>> This contributor could be you if you want to help packaging! >>>>>>> The current version of scripts are there: >>>>>>> https://gitlab.gnome.org/Infrastructure/gimp-macos-build >>>>>>> >>>>>>> There are only 3 possible outcomes: >>>>>>> 1/ This contributor finally comes back and he continues *alone* 😢 >>>>>>> to do >>>>>>> all the mac packaging. >>>>>>> 2/ Other people finally show they care by contributing. >>>>>>> 3/ A mix of 1/ and 2/ which is the best outcome! >>>>>>> >>>>>>> In none of these scenarios just asking without contributing helps in >>>>>>> any >>>>>>> way. >>>>>>> Thanks for either helping or understanding. 🙂 >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Jehan >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> > -- >>>>>>> > Maurizio Loreti -- maurizio.lor...@gmail.com >>>>>>> > _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> > gimp-user-list mailing list >>>>>>> > List address: gimp-user-list@gnome.org >>>>>>> > List membership: >>>>>>> https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gimp-user-list >>>>>>> > List archives: https://mail.gnome.org/archives/gimp-user-list >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> -- >>>>>>> ZeMarmot open animation film >>>>>>> http://film.zemarmot.net >>>>>>> Liberapay: https://liberapay.com/ZeMarmot/ >>>>>>> Patreon: https://patreon.com/zemarmot >>>>>>> Tipeee: https://www.tipeee.com/zemarmot >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> gimp-user-list mailing list >>>>>>> List address: gimp-user-list@gnome.org >>>>>>> List membership: >>>>>>> https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gimp-user-list >>>>>>> List archives: https://mail.gnome.org/archives/gimp-user-list >>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> -- >>>>> ZeMarmot open animation film >>>>> http://film.zemarmot.net >>>>> Liberapay: https://liberapay.com/ZeMarmot/ >>>>> Patreon: https://patreon.com/zemarmot >>>>> Tipeee: https://www.tipeee.com/zemarmot >>>>> >>>> >>> >>> -- >>> ZeMarmot open animation film >>> http://film.zemarmot.net >>> Liberapay: https://liberapay.com/ZeMarmot/ >>> Patreon: https://patreon.com/zemarmot >>> Tipeee: https://www.tipeee.com/zemarmot >>> >> > > -- > ZeMarmot open animation film > http://film.zemarmot.net > Liberapay: https://liberapay.com/ZeMarmot/ > Patreon: https://patreon.com/zemarmot > Tipeee: https://www.tipeee.com/zemarmot > _______________________________________________ gimp-user-list mailing list List address: gimp-user-list@gnome.org List membership: https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gimp-user-list List archives: https://mail.gnome.org/archives/gimp-user-list
